[PGT] Flames lose 4-1 to Winnipeg; lose Ryan to injury

[Toonage]

It almost feels like this is the way that the GM or even ownership wants to see the team play so he keeps going to the well for coaches who implement this style. Follow that up with poor personnel choices to fill out the roster and I guess this is what happens. They've managed some success playing similarly but even that was ultimately exposed and no answers could be provided.

[nieuwy-89]

I listened to much of the game on the Jets feed on Sirius XM. Generally a solid game call, but a couple of oddities. The PBP guys kept referring to Markstrom as "the 36 million dollar man" in a slightly mocking tone. Also kept referring to Tanev as "Christopher Tanev" every time he touched the puck, which was just weird.

Anyway, great series for the Jets getting 5 of 6 points. That really propelled them back into contention for the division lead.

Flames players need to decide if they are invested or not. There is no net drive, no pressure, no hunger. We are back to a popgun offense with the second worst goals/game in the division. To this point in the season, other than a couple of nice periods here and there, the forwards as a group look pretty checked out.

[Jeff Lebowski]

They do need more quick strike transition because structured defensive teams are back against them.

What I find perplexing is Peters first season - the team was able to attack any team and produce. I don't think Ward changed that much. I could be wrong but I think he changed the defensive zone coverage. But breakouts etc are the same.

Some key, core guys are not at a good level. These guys know. They need to step it up fast. Its obviously not so simple but it's just mistakes burning them right now. All it takes is a spark and it will turn around. This is an excellent team not far removed from conference championship plus great additions.

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

So I just finished reading 7 pages of this thread. I don't recall a handful of posts calling out the core/best players on this team. Timbit said the top players were awful. Is that the only post? But page after page after page of how Ward sucks.

Is there a slight chance that this team just isn't very good? That when the Flames best players have a bad game that maybe the team will look bad?

I'm not saying Ward is a great coach, but I really feel like the top players on this team are really getting a massive free pass (yet again) here tonight. Your best players have to be your best players and also have to be some of the best players on the ice. Far too often, under multiple coaches, this core has not consistently been the best players on their team, or on the ice.

Blaming the coach is easy. Realizing the core of this team just may not be that good is a tougher pill to swallow. We all wish this core was elite. They're not. Should have made big changes last season. Expect more of the same for the rest of the season unless big changes are made ASAP.

Shortened season easily can blame the coach. You can’t trade core players this year imo. So last shot with the core let’s see what a real vet coach can do with this group. If it fails we’ll time to retool big this off season and I believe that will happen with a new GM.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

So I just finished reading 7 pages of this thread. I don't recall a handful of posts calling out the core/best players on this team. Timbit said the top players were awful. Is that the only post? But page after page after page of how Ward sucks.

Is there a slight chance that this team just isn't very good? That when the Flames best players have a bad game that maybe the team will look bad?

I'm not saying Ward is a great coach, but I really feel like the top players on this team are really getting a massive free pass (yet again) here tonight. Your best players have to be your best players and also have to be some of the best players on the ice. Far too often, under multiple coaches, this core has not consistently been the best players on their team, or on the ice.

Blaming the coach is easy. Realizing the core of this team just may not be that good is a tougher pill to swallow. We all wish this core was elite. They're not. Should have made big changes last season. Expect more of the same for the rest of the season unless big changes are made ASAP.

I think most of the focus is on the coach, because the narrative of "is it coaching rather than the core" is now back in play. It would be one thing if the same results were happening, but it was with a coach that has several seasons of getting teams to the contender tier; meaning they know how to coach a roster to be successful enough to be a threat.

But by continuing to go to the dollar store to being the commander of the team, it's hard to say if it's the coach that's making the players not perform well, or is it the players that's making the coach look bad? (Or possibly both)

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by MrMike

No wonder Bennett wants away from this team.

He didn’t play tonight but he has been awful this season
He’s not a victim here he’s part of the problem

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Joborule

It is very puzzling to me that ever since the first half of the 2019-20 season, that this team completely flipped the switch on the tempo it plays, considering the construct of the team.

Whenever the Flames play quick north-south, fast breakout hockey, that's when they are firing on cylinders and looking lethal. A really good example of that was Game 6 against the Stars before the wheels fell off in the bubble playoffs last year.

But the coaching over the past two years seem to encourage the players to play more at a much more conservative pace, which only helps out the opposition in setting up to contain the breakout. Thus you get all these dump and chases that don't amount to anything, because that's not how the roster is built play.

This should be a fast, get the opposition chasing team, rather than slow entry, try to physically overpower the opposition team. And the NHL is all about being fast now. But the Flames coaching has consistently seem to go against that trend despite it appearing promising.

Exactly. First couple of games this year the D were activating and carrying the puck and everyone was getting up the ice and the team looked good.

5 day break where they worked on systems and they come back playing dump and chase with the back passes.

Ward doesn't like the chances you give up playing north south breakout hockey but that's why you have good dmen and a great goalie.

If the Flames could come out and play fast and pot 2 or 3 goals early every game with Markstrom and the D this year they would be winning a lot more games

[Two Fivenagame]

Originally Posted by Toonage

It almost feels like this is the way that the GM or even ownership wants to see the team play so he keeps going to the well for coaches who implement this style. Follow that up with poor personnel choices to fill out the roster and I guess this is what happens. They've managed some success playing similarly but even that was ultimately exposed and no answers could be provided.

I've often wondered this myself. Does BT dictate the style of play? Does he have a preference for a system and seek out coaches who run those systems?

[motorcrosser]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

So I just finished reading 7 pages of this thread. I don't recall a handful of posts calling out the core/best players on this team. Timbit said the top players were awful. Is that the only post? But page after page after page of how Ward sucks.

Is there a slight chance that this team just isn't very good? That when the Flames best players have a bad game that maybe the team will look bad?

I'm not saying Ward is a great coach, but I really feel like the top players on this team are really getting a massive free pass (yet again) here tonight. Your best players have to be your best players and also have to be some of the best players on the ice. Far too often, under multiple coaches, this core has not consistently been the best players on their team, or on the ice.

Blaming the coach is easy. Realizing the core of this team just may not be that good is a tougher pill to swallow. We all wish this core was elite. They're not. Should have made big changes last season. Expect more of the same for the rest of the season unless big changes are made ASAP.

I've been saying is the core for two years. Something isn't right. They just don't play well together.

[tvp2003]

Lots of blame to go around, but the PP has been bad:

Monday: 0-4, 4 shots
Tuesday: 0-4, 3 shots, SHG against
Thursday: 0-4, 2 shots

Like seriously? 2 shots? For a team that was struggling to generate 5 on 5, having your PP completely kill any momentum because your “best players” can’t even manage to put the puck on net... I think Rasmus hit a post tonight, but that’s not nearly good enough...

[flames_fan_down_under]

This team looks awfully familiar to the team I have been watching over the last 5 years.

I can't really remember the last time I have seen this team display a sustained, shift after shift, intense effort. They are often of the losing end of "50:50" pucks because their puck pursuit is so bland. Team speed is definitely a factor in that, but so is a determined collective effort, which this team doesn't possess. Unfortunately each line has a completely different approach to how they want to play, down to each player having what it seems like very different ideas each night on how they want to play. I see very little cohesion.

Even when a D man pinches he quickly gives up because there is often very little support from the other players to support the rush.

All in all a pretty typical Calgary Flames performance.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

So I just finished reading 7 pages of this thread. I don't recall a handful of posts calling out the core/best players on this team. Timbit said the top players were awful. Is that the only post? But page after page after page of how Ward sucks.

Is there a slight chance that this team just isn't very good? That when the Flames best players have a bad game that maybe the team will look bad?

I'm not saying Ward is a great coach, but I really feel like the top players on this team are really getting a massive free pass (yet again) here tonight. Your best players have to be your best players and also have to be some of the best players on the ice. Far too often, under multiple coaches, this core has not consistently been the best players on their team, or on the ice.

Blaming the coach is easy. Realizing the core of this team just may not be that good is a tougher pill to swallow. We all wish this core was elite. They're not. Should have made big changes last season. Expect more of the same for the rest of the season unless big changes are made ASAP.

Agree with this, but its been known for the last few seasons and was hammered home last season that the core needed a change. Like, there was no doubt about that, right? We are in the definition of insanity realm here with this group this season. The GM didn't make any of those changes.

It was also very apparent they should hire an experienced coach this time, after trying for some diamonds in the rough previously. The GM didn't do that either. At some point (despite doing some other good things like getting a clear staring goalie), the architect of this team has to be discussed.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Joborule

It is very puzzling to me that ever since the first half of the 2019-20 season, that this team completely flipped the switch on the tempo it plays, considering the construct of the team.

Whenever the Flames play quick north-south, fast breakout hockey, that's when they are firing on cylinders and looking lethal. A really good example of that was Game 6 against the Stars before the wheels fell off in the bubble playoffs last year.

But the coaching over the past two years seem to encourage the players to play more at a much more conservative pace, which only helps out the opposition in setting up to contain the breakout. Thus you get all these dump and chases that don't amount to anything, because that's not how the roster is built play.

This should be a fast, get the opposition chasing team, rather than slow entry, try to physically overpower the opposition team. And the NHL is all about being fast now. But the Flames coaching has consistently seem to go against that trend despite it appearing promising.

Originally Posted by Joborule

It is very puzzling to me that ever since the first half of the 2019-20 season, that this team completely flipped the switch on the tempo it plays, considering the construct of the team.

Whenever the Flames play quick north-south, fast breakout hockey, that's when they are firing on cylinders and looking lethal. A really good example of that was Game 6 against the Stars before the wheels fell off in the bubble playoffs last year.

But the coaching over the past two years seem to encourage the players to play more at a much more conservative pace, which only helps out the opposition in setting up to contain the breakout. Thus you get all these dump and chases that don't amount to anything, because that's not how the roster is built play.

This should be a fast, get the opposition chasing team, rather than slow entry, try to physically overpower the opposition team. And the NHL is all about being fast now. But the Flames coaching has consistently seem to go against that trend despite it appearing promising.

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

Exactly. First couple of games this year the D were activating and carrying the puck and everyone was getting up the ice and the team looked good.

5 day break where they worked on systems and they come back playing dump and chase with the back passes.

Ward doesn't like the chances you give up playing north south breakout hockey but that's why you have good dmen and a great goalie.

If the Flames could come out and play fast and pot 2 or 3 goals early every game with Markstrom and the D this year they would be winning a lot more games

This. 100% This.

At the all-star break in 18-19 the style this team played changed, and even with Peters gone it’s the same coaching staff.

The team started playing the system we see now. Slower, more dump and chase, and less aggressive with no risks and no pace.. They want them to play safe, grinding, playoff hockey. And it’s crazy because this team is not built for that style of play at all.

It’s never been more clear to me that some iteration of this is how the coaches and GM want them to play.

You’ll see the flashes where the players play loose and open it up like the first three games, but then the coaches coach that out of them and they look lifeless with absolutely no joy again.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by zamler

The ONE TIME since the big day we get a real coach he almost wins it all with a team that had no business getting anywhere near the finals. Doesn't this tell you something?

Are you talking about 2004? What does that have to do with this core of players?

It tells me that a completely different roster with a completely different coach may have completely different results.

[The Boy Wonder]

The flames would benefit if there was an option to fire everyone and start a new league with a fantasy draft

Management included

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

Shortened season easily can blame the coach. You can’t trade core players this year imo.

There was literally a major trade this past week involving core players.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

So I just finished reading 7 pages of this thread. I don't recall a handful of posts calling out the core/best players on this team. Timbit said the top players were awful. Is that the only post? But page after page after page of how Ward sucks.

Is there a slight chance that this team just isn't very good? That when the Flames best players have a bad game that maybe the team will look bad?

I'm not saying Ward is a great coach, but I really feel like the top players on this team are really getting a massive free pass (yet again) here tonight. Your best players have to be your best players and also have to be some of the best players on the ice. Far too often, under multiple coaches, this core has not consistently been the best players on their team, or on the ice.

Blaming the coach is easy. Realizing the core of this team just may not be that good is a tougher pill to swallow. We all wish this core was elite. They're not. Should have made big changes last season. Expect more of the same for the rest of the season unless big changes are made ASAP.

At this stage it's pretty clear the top players and players in the leadership group are a huge problem. I'm harping on the coach because he didn't have a contract as head coach in the summer, and did nothing to justify his hiring.

The hiring of Geoff Ward was every bit as dumb as maintaining the same group of on-ice leaders and core players. Both were just moronic decisions.

The core of this team should not have been kept together, and the leadership group needs a complete overhaul.

...and hiring a high quality coach would be nice to see for once.

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

There was literally a major trade this past week involving core players.

Exactly. There are no excuses for Treliving's inability to address the core of this team. Not in the off-season, and not now. Changes are required. One of the teams involved gave up one of their top players in exchange for a player they wouldn't get to play for 2 weeks, and they still got 5 of 6 points from us in a 3 game series. There are no excuses.

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Fan 960 crew talking about how the team is struggling as they figure out how to integrate all the new players.

...every team has new players. Every team. This team signed a defence man who has been good, and a goalie who has been elite. They then signed a bunch of junk and are playing them WAY too much and WAY too high in the line-up.

That’s a fair point though...

Gio needs time to learn that shooting the puck directly into the other teams shin pads to either keep the puck in the Flames zone or allow an odd man rush against isn’t really the plan.

Tkachuk needs time to figure out that lazy half assed efforts to clear the zone isn’t what the system is.

Lucic needs time to learn what colour jerseys the team wears so he can occasionally pass to the correct team.

Backlund needs to learn that being the last man back and turning the puck over to allow a clear cut breakaway to the other teams best player is probably not ideal. He’s new, give him some time.

The entire team needs time to learn that, generally speaking, shooting directly into the goalies chest or 20 feet high and wide is unlikely to score many goals and standing around watching in the D zone like pylons is more an Edmonton style... not Calgary’s. Just give them some time to gel. Like, maybe, another 15 years.

[CSharp]

Rittich must of feel a sigh of relief. The team in front of the goalies suck!

[zamler]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Are you talking about 2004? What does that have to do with this core of players?

It tells me that a completely different roster with a completely different coach may have completely different results.

I was referencing 1989. It doesn't matter the players were completely different you are totally missing the point. A legit coach gets the most out of the players can you honestly say that has happened since 2004? And don't bring up regular season the goal of any GM is to win the Cup.

You do realize we actually agree what the fundamental problem is. You say the core is no good I say the coaching is bad. Both have the same architect.