Flames fall 3-2 to the cargo planes

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm just not sweating individual games nor am I worried about season series.

The Flames have had a tough schedule (no Sens, less home games, less games overall), but have some of the best underlying numbers. They should be fine.

Unless they continue to shoot themselves in the foot in the first period every night.

If you had told me Monahan and Gaudreau would be back, Tanev would be a great addition and possibly ignite Hanifin, and that Markstrom was as advertised I'd be pretty damn happy.

This team feels like a five game win streak is on the horizon.

I hadn't looked at the underlying numbers all season.

I was trying to test my eye. I failed miserably on almost ever account except for Giordano.

The underlying numbers are very very positive for this team. They are much better than my apparently pessimistic eye has been.

I am going to continue doing it in 10 game segments to test my eye and my bias to see if I can get away from some of my more negative thinking and keep having some fun watching the game for the game!

But, wow, Giordano....

It's not pretty. And it doesn't look pretty either. Might be time for the coaching staff to really start limiting his ice time down to a #6, because he is struggling and dragging Andersson down with him.

In case anyone wants to have a look:

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/pla...&draftteam=ALL

[sticktrick]

Losing sucks, especially when teams don't play to their potential or put in a full 60 minutes. Always frustrating. There are lots of positives though. Markstrom. What was Vancouver thinking?

We all thought the same thing when the rumours came about of him not signing in Vancouver. I still can't believe it. Watching Markstrom gives me that confident feeling when watching the games on TV, I can't imagine the confidence it gives the players in front of him.

Similar feeling to how Kiprusoff made us all feel. I'm liking what is looking like a nice trajectory for Valimaki. Anderson is looking good too, but watching him closely one has to wonder if he'll be what we expect of him.

I think his skating/acceleration improving would make him an incredible player. Hanifin and Tanev, what a pleasant surprise and treat. I'm hoping Tanev keeps allowing Hanifin to push himself offensively and capitalize on his gifted skating ability. There's chemistry there for sure. Hanifin may surprise us all, particularly with all the media focus on Valimaki.

[Cobra]

Last year lots of people did not like Hanifin's play his partner was Anderson.
This year with Tanev as his partner he has played great.
Now people are criticizing Gio and his partner is Anderson.
While Gio looks to be slowing down I think some of his problems are his DEF partner Anderson.
Yet rarely any criticism for Anderson who seems out of position most games.
Does not look anywhere good enough to me to be a top pairing defenceman.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Cobra

Last year lots of people did not like Hanifin's play his partner was Anderson.
This year with Tanev as his partner he has played great.
Now people are criticizing Gio and his partner is Anderson.
While Gio looks to be slowing down I think some of his problems are his DEF partner Anderson.
Yet rarely any criticism for Anderson who seems out of position most games.
Does not look anywhere good enough to me to be a top pairing defenceman.

People liked Andersson with Hanifin last year after Hamonic was out and thought they both looked good together, myself included. You sure you are remembering that right?

[AC]

Yeah people were really pleased with Hanifin-Andersson when put together when Hamonic was injured and then opted out.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Cobra

Last year lots of people did not like Hanifin's play his partner was Anderson.
This year with Tanev as his partner he has played great.
Now people are criticizing Gio and his partner is Anderson.
While Gio looks to be slowing down I think some of his problems are his DEF partner Anderson.
Yet rarely any criticism for Anderson who seems out of position most games.
Does not look anywhere good enough to me to be a top pairing defenceman.

Um, last year Hanifin was paired with Hamonic. And it was bad.

Last year Hanifin and Hamonic played 646.7 minutes together all situations. And they sucked. Worst on the team.

Hanifin played with Anderson for 398.6 minutes together, and were excellent.

Giordano and Anderson played 274.9 minutes together and were excellent.

Everyone paired with Hamonic had the worst minutes playing wise on the team.

So I am not sure what you are talking about.

The only thing that has changed this year is Hamonic is gone, Hanifin and Tanev are one of the best pairings in the NHL, Giordano is a year older and playing the most minutes on the team and struggling with them.

You can try to pretend it's not Giordano, but even the eye test shows he looks very slow and and struggling to keep up with the play.


All numbers can be found here:

http://moneypuck.com/lines.htm

[Gaskal]

They should pair Valimaki back with Andersson and stick Gio on spot duty with Nesterov, IMO.

[Wastedyouth]

Ward needs to keep Mangiapane-Lindholm-Tkatchuk together and not move them. They are ridiculously good together.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

They should pair Valimaki back with Andersson and stick Gio on spot duty with Nesterov, IMO.

Yep, and shelter him. PK and PP he is actually playing well.

He is getting destroyed at even strength against all levels of competition.

[sticktrick]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

They should pair Valimaki back with Andersson and stick Gio on spot duty with Nesterov, IMO.

I agree, it's definitely worth a try. I'm hoping the coaching staff are giving it a bit more time to gauge the pairings. Giordano is a still a great player, but he's clearly not what he was in recent years.

[Bingo]

The only thing that gives me pause in blaming it on Giordano is last year's playoffs.

In the ten games Andersson was in last position in xGF% with 43.9. Giordano was above 50.

But you guys are right ... Andersson and Giordano had good success last year.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

But, wow, Giordano....

It's not pretty. And it doesn't look pretty either. Might be time for the coaching staff to really start limiting his ice time down to a #6, because he is struggling and dragging Andersson down with him.

In case anyone wants to have a look:

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/pla...&draftteam=ALL

I have no idea what I'm looking at in this chart, but assuming xGA stands for expected Goals Against, seeing a 9 beside Giordano when everyone else is between 1 and 6 is probably not a good thing...

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

No, just the usual suspects.

Some people just can't help but complain about sports all the time. I don't think they'd even be happy if the Flames won because it would mean their self fulfilling prophecy would be proven false.

If you think about it, it isn't surprising that a large number of pessimists are drawn to sports. Most teams are going to lose most of the time. Even dynasties like the 90s Bulls, late 90s Yankees and the 00s/10s Patriots have no shortage of angry fans who still find reasons to complain year in and year out.

Add in the emotional fans who take every loss personal and it sure is easy to get the impression the Flames are the most soul sucking franchise in the history of professional sports. In reality, we're just like every other fanbase.


I don't even blame people for wanting to enjoy the terrifying lows, the dizzying highs and the creamy middles. Just don't get caught up in focusing on a single one or you'll become an angry and disgruntled fan.

Yeah this probably describes me somewhat. The other night I (probably rightfully I guess) got clobbered in the PGT partially because dinoc7 seemingly makes it his personal mission to follow me around and disagree with my opinions every single time I post but the general thesis I was laying out I felt was either not being understood, I was not communicating very well and or people just flat out didn’t want to hear anything negative after a 2-0 win against the best team in the division and honestly that’s fair and I get it (or maybe some combo of all of those reasons).

Nonetheless I can say with certainty I am not “emotional” over losses or poor play. I understand a season will not go 110% A+ for 82 (56) games. I get that teams will have poor stretches, good stretches, lazy stretches and hot streaks. I recognize sometimes there’s a time for negativity or “realism” and sometimes there isn’t and I was wrong to post at that time (clearly haha) and that it can be over-the-top, unrealistically pessimistic or maybe not framing the context correctly. I also understand it can be draining to read, usually belabouring the same point over and over again, and all of that. I get it. I really do. And most importantly I know I’m not right all the time. Looks like I’m almost guaranteed to owe jayswin $100 on a hilariously awful side bet on my part.

That all said, I think people overreact to the reactions and commentary. I think people are blind to realities and almost seem to take it as a personal affront if someone points out that, ya know what? These guys seem lazy tonight, or I was disappointed with that. Like, obviously, bad things happen with this team. Look at the track record of this franchise LOL. And lastly and most importantly on this side, I prefer to discuss things that could be improved upon rather than 50 pages or semi-artificial “yay” quotes. I find that boring (personally). It’ll be loud and clear (and for good reason and great) what the Flames do well on this site. And that’s good. Do we need 3,000 posts of it? Like, acknowledged. And sorry- there really is (IMO) a legitimate issue (crisis, call it whatever you want) with this team and their inconsistent efforts. You can plug your ears and laugh it off and ignore it but I’m not exactly the only one saying this. In fact just this morning on the fan960 they talked about precisely that. That’s what the “identity” of this core is now. They only have themselves to blame. It’s not hard to watch somebody and see if they’re trying. Like, you see them when they try, you see them when they don’t. It’s pretty obvious. Sorry if people feel pointing that out is a crime, but in terms of getting “emotional”, who is who here? The guy pointing it out or the people reacting to the comment? Anyway again, time and place, I understand.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The only thing that gives me pause in blaming it on Giordano is last year's playoffs.

In the ten games Andersson was in last position in xGF% with 43.9. Giordano was above 50.

But you guys are right ... Andersson and Giordano had good success last year.

Wasn't Anderson injured midway through the Dallas series?

I remembered he was very good against Winnipeg and in the first few games against Dallas, then his game fell apart.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by 868904

Wasn't Anderson injured midway through the Dallas series?

I remembered he was very good against Winnipeg and in the first few games against Dallas, then his game fell apart.

Didn't he have a broken foot?

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Yeah this probably describes me somewhat. The other night I (probably rightfully I guess) got clobbered in the PGT partially because dinoc7 seemingly makes it his personal mission to follow me around and disagree with my opinions every single time I post but the general thesis I was laying out I felt was either not being understood, I was not communicating very well and or people just flat out didn’t want to hear anything negative after a 2-0 win against the best team in the division and honestly that’s fair and I get it (or maybe some combo of all of those reasons).

Nonetheless I can say with certainty I am not “emotional” over losses or poor play. I understand a season will not go 110% A+ for 82 (56) games. I get that teams will have poor stretches, good stretches, lazy stretches and hot streaks. I recognize sometimes there’s a time for negativity or “realism” and sometimes there isn’t and I was wrong to post at that time (clearly haha) and that it can be over-the-top, unrealistically pessimistic or maybe not framing the context correctly. I also understand it can be draining to read, usually belabouring the same point over and over again, and all of that. I get it. I really do. And most importantly I know I’m not right all the time. Looks like I’m almost guaranteed to owe jayswin $100 on a hilariously awful side bet on my part.

That all said, I think people overreact to the reactions and commentary. I think people are blind to realities and almost seem to take it as a personal affront if someone points out that, ya know what? These guys seem lazy tonight, or I was disappointed with that. Like, obviously, bad things happen with this team. Look at the track record of this franchise LOL. And lastly and most importantly on this side, I prefer to discuss things that could be improved upon rather than 50 pages or semi-artificial “yay” quotes. I find that boring (personally). It’ll be loud and clear (and for good reason and great) what the Flames do well on this site. And that’s good. Do we need 3,000 posts of it? Like, acknowledged. And sorry- there really is (IMO) a legitimate issue (crisis, call it whatever you want) with this team and their inconsistent efforts. You can plug your ears and laugh it off and ignore it but I’m not exactly the only one saying this. In fact just this morning on the fan960 they talked about precisely that. That’s what the “identity” of this core is now. They only have themselves to blame. It’s not hard to watch somebody and see if they’re trying. Like, you see them when they try, you see them when they don’t. It’s pretty obvious. Sorry if people feel pointing that out is a crime, but in terms of getting “emotional”, who is who here? The guy pointing it out or the people reacting to the comment? Anyway again, time and place, I understand.

And just so no one on CP thinks my post was personal or a passive aggressive “attack”, I was not thinking of any CPer when I wrote that post. I was talking about my old man. He’s the definition of a pessimistic sports fan. Thank god he’s not an overly emotional sports fan or it’d drive me nuts.

Negative or emotional I can deal with but both? That’s a recipe for disaster.

[ComixZone]

Watching Paul Maurice talk about the game, and defend Wheeler...god I’d love to have Paul Maurice as the coach of this team.

Some people tell me coaches don’t matter, and that it’s all about the players...and I see a coach like that, and I call horse#%^*. What he has accomplished with that defence...with the stuff that roster has gone through, where would we be if we went through that type of stuff? A defensive group like that...

Paul Maurice is better than any coach we’ve had since 2005/2006 Darryl Sutter. The more I look at it, the more I think about it - it’s absolute lunacy and incompetence that we’ve continued to hire who we hire as coaches.

[868904]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Watching Paul Maurice talk about the game, and defend Wheeler...god I’d love to have Paul Maurice as the coach of this team.

Some people tell me coaches don’t matter, and that it’s all about the players...and I see a coach like that, and I call horse#%^*. What he has accomplished with that defence...with the stuff that roster has gone through, where would we be if we went through that type of stuff? A defensive group like that...

Paul Maurice is better than any coach we’ve had since 2005/2006 Darryl Sutter. The more I look at it, the more I think about it - it’s absolute lunacy and incompetence that we’ve continued to hire who we hire as coaches.

Really?

The Jets have been loaded with talent ever since he's been there. For a great players coach, he sure hasn't been able to keep some of his best players around. Whatever culture he's built there didn't keep Laine, Trouba or Big Buff happy enough to stick around.

He got out coached last year by GEOFF WARD.

I don't see Maurice as that big an improvement over Ward.

Maurice isn't even in the same conversation as Darryl.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm just not sweating individual games nor am I worried about season series.

The six different season series are what the entire regular season is about.

You have to beat the teams you’re competing with, as it’s going to be very hard to take the back door into the playoffs.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Watching Paul Maurice talk about the game, and defend Wheeler...god I’d love to have Paul Maurice as the coach of this team.

Some people tell me coaches don’t matter, and that it’s all about the players...and I see a coach like that, and I call horse#%^*. What he has accomplished with that defence...with the stuff that roster has gone through, where would we be if we went through that type of stuff? A defensive group like that...

Paul Maurice is better than any coach we’ve had since 2005/2006 Darryl Sutter. The more I look at it, the more I think about it - it’s absolute lunacy and incompetence that we’ve continued to hire who we hire as coaches.

Ward has been on the hot seat a bunch of times.