[News] All-encompassing Bennett trade discussions thread

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

What? No. That’s not it at all.

But if he succeeds elsewhere, who cares? That’s not Calgary getting burned. It’s just an unfortunate reality. There could be dozens of reasons why he didn’t work out here. Most likely is that he’s not very good.

You’re the only one taking an extreme here.

Well he said just desserts and team failed to find him a role ... that implies the team is at fault doesn't it?

Otherwise my point is ... he's not unlucky, he's grouped with players that I wouldn't place high on my acquisition list.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Oh maybe you’re right. I didn’t read that part.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

That scenarios not Calgary getting burned though. That's calgary getting their just deserts.

Yes, because the Calgary Flames plotted against Bennett this whole time! They have intentionally held back a budding superstar much to their own detriment. This is clearly on the Calgary Flames and not on the player for not having the brains, skill, or dedication to the game to carve out a roll for himself. I'm shocked you haven't blown this up to be a league wide conspiracy, where the NHL instructed the Flames to hold Bennett back, so he didn't cut into the coverage of Connor McDavid!

Now, to the Flames and the league, wait till you get your just deserts! Will that be Mojave? Gobi? Kalahari? Sahara?

[corporatejay]

The legend of playoff Sam Bennett around here is something they build statues for. He's an effective playoff guy, he had a good bubble playoff. Otherwise he's been a contributor rather than a detriment, that's about it. Playoff Sam Bennett is a low tier second liner or a top tier third liner. Let's not get carried away here.

[powderjunkie]

Do players on quarantine count against the cap?

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Coaches play who they trust and who they think gives them the best chance of winning
So if that’s favouritism I agree
But several coaches have decided that on most nights they don’t think Sam is amongst the top forwards
Ain’t no bias. Just reality

There's always bias. That's the reality.

[stang]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Do players on quarantine count against the cap?

Yes I believe so

[The Boy Wonder]

Sam Bennett could go and get a hat trick in 15 straight games, and it still wouldn’t lead to him getting more ice time or opportunity above JG or Tkachuk. It’s the glass ceiling on LW with the flames that IMO has led to him requesting a trade not that he doesn’t understand his role, I think it’s just frustration that he has no path forward no matter what he does.

He was electric in the playoffs but did he get anywhere near the amount of ice time as JG? The eye test was extremely obvious that he was our best player against Winn and Dal and yet no matter what he did his line didn’t get more ice time than the “1st line”.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Bingo

So Bennett was great and Calgary held him back?

I don't know what Bennett "was" or "is" but I don't think there's any denying that Bennett didn't have the opportunities needed to maximize whatever his potential was. Random 1 period 5v5 stints at RW, still no PP, are not that for a LHS center.

The Coyotes got their "just deserts" with Dylan Strome.
The Flames got their "just deserts" with MSL and Savard.

If you have a player in your organization, and for whatever reason that player succeeds elsewhere, then yeah, you failed to maximize the value of your asset.

If the player fails elsewhere, a la Lazar, then whatever, no Sens fan is losing sleep over him.

At this point, Sam Bennett deserves a change of scenery if for no other reason than this:

His coach said he would be seen as a center this season.

He played exactly one period at center, in between Milan Lucic and Joakim Nordstrom, a line anyone could predict to fail.

Here's a player who can kill penalties, but doesn't so otherwise useless vets like Nordstrom do.
Who can play PP, but doesn't so old vets like Lucic do.

Only time will tell how his career goes elsewhere. But Calgary is not the right situation for him. If for no other reason than the fact that they're already oversaturated with left shot forwards. A team with more right handed shot forwards would probably find a better niche for this player.

I reiterate - Calgary is not getting burned "if" he succeeds elsewhere. But since you seem to think he won't succeed elsewhere, than that scenario itself won't happen anyways.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

Sam Bennett could go and get a hat trick in 15 straight games, and it still wouldn’t lead to him getting more ice time or opportunity above JG or Tkachuk. It’s the glass ceiling on LW with the flames that IMO has led to him requesting a trade not that he doesn’t understand his role, I think it’s just frustration that he has no path forward no matter what he does.

He was electric in the playoffs but did he get anywhere near the amount of ice time as JG? The eye test was extremely obvious that he was our best player against Winn and Dal and yet no matter what he did his line didn’t get more ice time than the “1st line”.

Wow. "Electric"?

That is absolutely not my recollection of it. Bennett was good; he finished his checks and hounded the puck. He created havoc in the offensive zone and scored and set up some good chances in the slot and the crease. But the idea that he is a dynamic, cerebral player that was bringing viewers out of their seats to see what he might do next is flatly false. It baffles me how exaggerated Sam Bennet's rather pedestrian hockey skills are by some on this board.


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[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Virtanen for Bennett makes a lot of sense.

Don’t like trading within the division (especially with Vancouver or Edmonton), but I have a hunch that Virtanen would be a .5 PPG player here. Seems like a decent fit with Monahan and Gaudreau.

Please stay far far away from Lazy Jake.

[really?]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

Sam Bennett could go and get a hat trick in 15 straight games, and it still wouldn’t lead to him getting more ice time or opportunity above JG or Tkachuk. It’s the glass ceiling on LW with the flames that IMO has led to him requesting a trade not that he doesn’t understand his role, I think it’s just frustration that he has no path forward no matter what he does.

He was electric in the playoffs but did he get anywhere near the amount of ice time as JG? The eye test was extremely obvious that he was our best player against Winn and Dal and yet no matter what he did his line didn’t get more ice time than the “1st line”.

I'm a big fan of Sam Bennett, but he's never played a consistent game over an extended period of time to clearly justify a larger role. I think he could be a top three guy in comparison to who is currently on this roster, but he has to own at least some measure of responsibility for his current status on the roster. Clearly there have been sacred cows within the ranks, and the mediocrity of the team over the past five plus years would suggest that assuring guys of preferred duties has done little beyond create an attitude of complacency. Having said that has Sam Bennett kicked the door in, and by his play demanded that a center or two be relegated? At this point my eyes say the answer to that question is no.

If he wants to go, I don't blame him, but he does need to look in the mirror as he moves on if he wants greener pastures. The fact that the Flames have allowed a country club atmosphere to replace Hartley's "always earned," mentality does not totally explain the inability of Sam Bennett to become a core component of the team. At times he shows the potential to influence the game, and at other times he's merely throwing gas on a fire by expending energy with no obvious purpose. I suspect he goes elsewhere, finds an environment where a coach and a room welcome nothing beyond commitment, and he begins to thrive. Even in that environment Sam Bennett will need to learn to harness his efforts and not routinely carry the puck into scenarios where success is unlikely. When he's on, and plays the game in ten foot increments, he's that guy many have described as "Playoff Bennett," but too often he plays like he's stuck in midget level and can dictate the game to the other 9 skaters. Even McDavid has a hard time doing that.

It would be nice if he sharpened his focus and reshaped his approach, but that may be unlikely in Calgary. If moved, I hope he does develop into what he could be, and I also hope that Treliving would look to the future and begin acquiring future assets, because his habit of supplementing this core with seasoned professionals has done little beyond inviting annual team meetings, and eliciting resumes from coaching candidates.

[Kovaz]

On the topic of development, I really disagree with a lot of common opinions here. The NHL is a development league. You can't just assume all players have a static, unchanging development path, and if they don't make it it's their fault. Some players are worth investing in and some just aren't. There's a great example of my philosophy happening in the NBA right now with the Warriors and James Wiseman, their 19-year-old 2nd overall pick. Their starting lineup with Wiseman has some of the worst stats in the NBA. Steve Kerr (coach) was asked about it and had a great quote (emphasis mine):

Originally Posted by Steve Kerr

The team is learning on the fly. I'll be very honest. If I had to win a game tomorrow, I wouldn't start that group. If this was a one time thing I would start a different group and probably got to some different combinations, but this is the team that I wanna see develop a really good defensive identity, and James needs to be out there. Kelly and Andrew need to be together on the wings guarding, you know, LeBron and Kawhi and Paul George and all those guys. So it's gonna take some time and in the meantime there's gonna be some growing pains, but I'm okay with it because for us to be great down the road, whether it's by the end of this year or even next season, James has to develop and Kelly and Andrew have to get comfortable and I'm willing to sacrifice some things here early in the season to get to where we wanna be later on

You can't have your cake and eat it too. You're always going to have a choice like this to make: do we go with the stable veteran with a low ceiling, or the mistake-prone rookie with higher potential? If your top prospect struggles, do you bench him right away, or let him ride it out even if it costs you some points along the way?


When it comes to Bennett, I always go back to the start of Gulutzan's tenure. Bennett and Tkachuk looked great together in the preseason and they started the season together, but when we struggled out of the gate Gulutzan shuffled the lines, 3M was born, and Bennett spent the next two years with a Troy Brouwer-shaped boat anchor around his neck. Who, by the way, had the exact same negative impact on Monahan and Backlund, so it's not like that was a Bennett-specific problem. And we wonder why he doesn't use his linemates effectively. Maybe it's the PTSD of watching pass after pass clank off Brouwer's stick to the other team?


At some point, you have to take a long-term view. If our rebuild needed Bennett to pan out as a top-6 C, then not investing the time needed to develop him that way is a failure on the team in my view.

[David Struch]

Expect the Pittsburgh Penguins, Toronto Maple Leafs, and New Jersey Devils to all have some level of interest as these three teams have been linked to Bennett in the past.

https://www.nhltraderumors.me/2021/0...sts-trade.html

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I don't know what Bennett "was" or "is" but I don't think there's any denying that Bennett didn't have the opportunities needed to maximize whatever his potential was. Random 1 period 5v5 stints at RW, still no PP, are not that for a LHS center.

The Coyotes got their "just deserts" with Dylan Strome.
The Flames got their "just deserts" with MSL and Savard.

If you have a player in your organization, and for whatever reason that player succeeds elsewhere, then yeah, you failed to maximize the value of your asset.

If the player fails elsewhere, a la Lazar, then whatever, no Sens fan is losing sleep over him.

At this point, Sam Bennett deserves a change of scenery if for no other reason than this:

His coach said he would be seen as a center this season.

He played exactly one period at center, in between Milan Lucic and Joakim Nordstrom, a line anyone could predict to fail.

Here's a player who can kill penalties, but doesn't so otherwise useless vets like Nordstrom do.
Who can play PP, but doesn't so old vets like Lucic do.

Only time will tell how his career goes elsewhere. But Calgary is not the right situation for him. If for no other reason than the fact that they're already oversaturated with left shot forwards. A team with more right handed shot forwards would probably find a better niche for this player.

I reiterate - Calgary is not getting burned "if" he succeeds elsewhere. But since you seem to think he won't succeed elsewhere, than that scenario itself won't happen anyways.

So the team ... management, coaches all want him at center and to succeed, but then changed their mind and decided to tank his season?

Does that honestly make sense for you?

He started camp on the third line with Dube and Lucic. It didn't click. They moved him to center on the fourth line and the line got filled in. They moved him to the third line with quality players and kept him there because he wasn't getting out played for the most part, but couldn't produce.

That's not tanking a player.

My point though was the group of players around him suggest he gets the chances based on shot metrics but he's an undeniable presence on lines that don't put the puck in the net. That can't be bad luck year over year.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Wow. "Electric"?

That is absolutely not my recollection of it. Bennett was good; he finished his checks and hounded the puck. He created havoc in the offensive zone and scored and set up some good chances in the slot and the crease. But the idea that he is a dynamic, cerebral player that was bringing viewers out of their seats to see what he might do next is flatly false. It baffles me how exaggerated Sam Bennet's rather pedestrian hockey skills are by some on this board.


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Yeah this is my recollection as well. He got a couple goals by whacking the puck in after Dube and/or Lucic created a pileup. He was physical - good. It’s not like he was carrying plays. And his biggest PO games were in losses.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Yeah this is my recollection as well. He got a couple goals by whacking the puck in after Dube and/or Lucic created a pileup. He was physical - good. It’s not like he was carrying plays. And his biggest PO games were in losses.

There was something about playing at center though, he seemed to pick up speed and be better on the rush, perhaps because he came from the back (center is generally the last forward to leave the zone), and maybe saw the play better than if he took a pass on the wall near the blueline.

He looked more like OHL Bennett.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Yeah this is my recollection as well. He got a couple goals by whacking the puck in after Dube and/or Lucic created a pileup. He was physical - good. It’s not like he was carrying plays. And his biggest PO games were in losses.

I continue to say it: I just don't see any even above-average hockey skills in Bennett's tool box. More than anything else THAT is what is holding him back.

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[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Bingo

So the team ... management, coaches all want him at center and to succeed, but then changed their mind and decided to tank his season?

Does that honestly make sense for you?

I think management doesn't interfere with coaches.

I think the coaches are not invested in the player because they lack any creativity. This has been the case with the last three coaches. The last coach with any creativity was Hartley.

He started camp on the third line with Dube and Lucic. It didn't click.

What?

Are you seriously saying a few scrimmages is a good basis for line construction? This line literally clicked in actual NHL games. Actual NHL playoff games.

They moved him to center on the fourth line and the line got filled in.

Exactly. Moving a player to the fourth line and expecting better than fourth line results is asinine. And then putting AHL caliber talent like Nordstrom on that line opposite a lug like Lucic? It's a horrible line, and I'm saying that in defense of Derek Ryan who has to drag them around every night. They got filled in? No DUH. You could put McDavid in between Nordstrom and Lucic and they'd get filled in.

They moved him to the third line with quality players and kept him there because he wasn't getting out played for the most part, but couldn't produce.

He has as many points as Andrew Mangiapane, but the narrative around here, and the usage, would suggest mangiapane's on pace for 30 goals.

That's not tanking a player.

Bennett has never played well on the wing. He doesn't use the boards well and does use the middle of the ice well. He's much like Backlund in this regard. Gluing Backlund to Monahan's wing for most of last season tanked Backlund, too.

My point though was the group of players around him suggest he gets the chances based on shot metrics but he's an undeniable presence on lines that don't put the puck in the net. That can't be bad luck year over year.

Who said anything about bad luck?

He was playing with guys like Tobias Reider, not exactly guys who put the puck in the net. James Neal in his lone year as a Flame looked like he couldn't score on a shooter tutor, and he was getting some pretty damn good feeds that year. Alex Chiasson wasn't exactly a sniper either.

Those are simply bad finishers.

Bennett had bad luck exactly one year - 2017-18 - when his individual shooting percentages plumetted. And as expected, his percentages went right back up every other year from that.

He's had bad linemates just about every year. That's not bad luck though. It's the Flames love of bottom six plugs.

And yeah, the Backlund-Bennett line has underproduced so far. That's on both of them, and whoever else is there. But I don't believe the chances have been there either, they're simply playing poorly over a small sample size. The bigger issue is that even if they get hot, Bennett is still stuck on the wing where he cannot play to his strengths.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Bingo

There was something about playing at center though, he seemed to pick up speed and be better on the rush, perhaps because he came from the back (center is generally the last forward to leave the zone), and maybe saw the play better than if he took a pass on the wall near the blueline.



He looked more like OHL Bennett.

Yeah, I also agree with this. Unfortunately for Bennett the only option to play him at centre on this team is on the fourth line. Disgruntled observers can't have their cake and eat it tok: if they want Bennett to have higher quality linemates, then it means playing him on the wing. If they want him at centre, then it means playing on the fourth line. There is just no way he is going to supplant one of tbe three centres in front of him.

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