2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Major Major]

I would do Monahan and non playoff protected 1st. Might add a conditional 2nd if the Flames make it out of the Canadian division. Anything beyond that and I'd rather just keep what we have. This team can win in the playoffs with what they have now.

[AustinL_NHL]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

5v5 stats in 2019-2020 season for two players:

Player A:

Goals:15
Primary Assists: 11
Total Assists: 14
Points: 29

Goals per 60: 1.04
Points per 60: 2.02

XGF%: 53.4%

Hockey Viz Offensive Contribution: +7% (Positive is good)
Hockey Viz Defensive Contribution: -7% (Negative is good)

Player B:

Goals:15
Primary Assists: 10
Total Assists: 18
Points: 33

Goals per 60: 0.91
Points per 60: 2.01

XGF%: 54.2%

Hockey Viz Offensive Contribution: +9% (Positive is good)
Hockey Viz Defensive Contribution: +5% (Negative is good)

Player A is Mangiapane, Player B is Dubois.

If Mangiapane is getting moved as part of the deal then he’s the centrepiece. Not moved as a sweetener on top of Monahan.

It is absolutely baffling to me how INSANELY underrated Mangiapane is on this forum. The guy produced at a 1st line rate 5v5 last season, played incredible defense, and yet there's countless people on this forum calling him a "top 9 forward" and willing to throw him into basically every trade offer for any half-decent player (Dubois is a lot more than a half-decent player but still)

[FanIn80]

Mangiapane is about as untouchable as it gets.

[Snuffleupagus]

Mangiapane and Dube should be off the table.

Monahan + Kylington + 2nd should be more than enough for Dubois

[Sandman]

Again, you can't compare players in this situation based on what they are NOW. Mangiapane is one of my favorites too, but he's 2 years older than Dubois-when Bread was 22, he was still fighting to be an NHL regular. What will PLD be like in 2 years?

PLD plays C, and we all know how important that position is. In a few years, PLD is likely to be a star player. If all it takes to aquire a 6'3"218lb center who can skate, and was drafted 3rd overall, is a package centered around a 5'10" winger-most GMs wouldn't pass that up. We won't have to worry about it anyway, cuz CBJ wouldn't pull the trigger on that deal.

These players usually only come around when you're picking top-3 in the draft, and that's not likely to happen any time soon, so if a trade for one comes your way, back up the truck.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Mangiapane is about as untouchable as it gets.

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Mangiapane and Dube should be off the table.

Monahan + Kylington + 2nd should be more than enough for Dubois

What are you people talking about? A 2/3 line winger is off the table for a possible 1st line center who's only 22? The reality is that Columbus probably has little interest in these two players as part of the return for PLD. I would throw one of them into a deal without hesitation if Columbus actually wanted one as part of the return as some of you have to realize that you have to give up a lot to get a good player in return. If the ask is Monahan, Dube/Mangiapane, and the Flames unprotected 1st round pick you probably make the deal as it's the cost of acquiring a young center.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

What are you people talking about? A 2/3 line winger is off the table for a possible 1st line center who's only 22? The reality is that Columbus probably has little interest in these two players as part of the return for PLD. I would throw one of them into a deal without hesitation if Columbus actually wanted one as part of the return as some of you have to realize that you have to give up a lot to get a good player in return. If the ask is Monahan, Dube/Mangiapane, and the Flames unprotected 1st round pick you probably make the deal as it's the cost of acquiring a young center.

Agree with you on this one.

If the Flames offer is comprised of Monahan and loose change (Kylington and or an assortment of picks) PLD will end up elsewhere.

Treliving and hockey ops will have to decide if this is the guy you back the truck up for. Having the chance to acquire a 22 year old 1C come around, what?, once a decade?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

What are you people talking about? A 2/3 line winger is off the table for a possible 1st line center who's only 22? The reality is that Columbus probably has little interest in these two players as part of the return for PLD. I would throw one of them into a deal without hesitation if Columbus actually wanted one as part of the return as some of you have to realize that you have to give up a lot to get a good player in return. If the ask is Monahan, Dube/Mangiapane, and the Flames unprotected 1st round pick you probably make the deal as it's the cost of acquiring a young center.

I agree that it is ridiculous to say that Mangiapane and Dube are untouchable. Or that they are more valuable than Dubois (ridiculous).

But Monahan + Dube + 1st is way too much

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Mangiapane is about as untouchable as it gets.

I like Mangiapane, but to suggest he’s about “untouchable as it gets” is a little much.

I don’t think anyone is actually untouchable. And if Calgary can trade two (presumably lesser) assets for a first line centre that can score and play physical, you gotta do that.

The teams bidding for a first line centre will start a bidding war. You won’t get him unless it hurts.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I agree that it is ridiculous to say that Mangiapane and Dube are untouchable. Or that they are more valuable than Dubois (ridiculous).

But Monahan + Dube + 1st is way too much

I don't think it is and I'm not one of those people salivating over PLD as he's no lock to be an elite 1st line center IMO. Treliving gave up a 1st and two 2nd's for Hamonic who wasn't even a top pairing defenseman. We are talking about a 22 year old center that has franchise center potential. Dube looks like he may have a solid career as a 2/3rd line player but Pelletier can replace what he brings. This upcoming draft is going to be a bit of a mess anyway so the Flames could get just as good a player with their 2nd or two 3rds than mid-late 1st round. I just think that we are being very guilty of overrating talent here as every (okay maybe not the Oilers) team has guys like Mangiapane and Dube on their roster.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't think it is and I'm not one of those people salivating over PLD as he's no lock to be an elite 1st line center IMO. Treliving gave up a 1st and two 2nd's for Hamonic who wasn't even a top pairing defenseman. We are talking about a 22 year old center that has franchise center potential. Dube looks like he may have a solid career as a 2/3rd line player but Pelletier can replace what he brings. This upcoming draft is going to be a bit of a mess anyway so the Flames could get just as good a player with their 2nd or two 3rds than mid-late 1st round. I just think that we are being very guilty of overrating talent here as every (okay maybe not the Oilers) team has guys like Mangiapane and Dube on their roster.

Yes, there are some people overvaluing some of our players. But let's keep the two issues separate.

That package is simply too much. PLD is not that much more valuable than Monahan that it would require adding a Dube or Mangiapane and a 1st.

The 1st is the least valuable asset in that package.

The team is not in rebuilding mode, it is in win now mode. And we may well be losing Gaudreau next year (even more likely if Monahan is traded). If we start 'throwing in' key wingers, we are going to get thin very quickly.

Our winger list:

Tkachuk
Gaudreau
Mangiapane
Dube
Bennett
Leivo

Yes, C would be deep with PLD, Lindholm and Backlund, but the return for Gaudreau better be stellar, because wing will be getting seriously depleted.

If a trade of Monahan for PLD is going to make sense for the Flames, it can't include another key roster asset. It would have to be picks, or prospects.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I agree that it is ridiculous to say that Mangiapane and Dube are untouchable. Or that they are more valuable than Dubois (ridiculous).

But Monahan + Dube + 1st is way too much

I agree that it’s to much. That said some fans have suggested that we trade for PLD during the upcoming break. I think if you want to make that trade this early in season then it would take that kind of package that was suggested. Columbus is in no hurry to trade PLD.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yes, there are some people overvaluing some of our players. But let's keep the two issues separate.

That package is simply too much. PLD is not that much more valuable than Monahan that it would require adding a Dube or Mangiapane and a 1st.

The 1st is the least valuable asset in that package.

The team is not in rebuilding mode, it is in win now mode. And we may well be losing Gaudreau next year (even more likely if Monahan is traded). If we start 'throwing in' key wingers, we are going to get thin very quickly.

Our winger list:

Tkachuk
Gaudreau
Mangiapane
Dube
Bennett
Leivo

Yes, C would be deep with PLD, Lindholm and Backlund, but the return for Gaudreau better be stellar, because wing will be getting seriously depleted.

If a trade of Monahan for PLD is going to make sense for the Flames, it can't include another key roster asset. It would have to be picks, or prospects.

but look at it from the other side. What would it take to make sense for the Jackets? If they have the best asset in the deal, it can't be as someone suggested "Monahan + Kylington + 2nd"

Kylington doesn't add any value to the deal, and I don't think a second is enough when comparing Monahan and PLD. maybe The flames do think that's fair. I think the second rounder has to be the first at the very least, to have the Jackets seriously consider a deal.

This is a situation where you have to give to get if the Flames believe PLD is a tier above Monahan.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I agree that it’s to much. That said some fans have suggested that we trade for PLD during the upcoming break. I think if you want to make that trade this early in season then it would take that kind of package that was suggested. Columbus is in no hurry to trade PLD.

Then we shouldn't be either. Over-paying, just to get it done now, is not good asset management.

Columbus is the team that needs to get this done, not Calgary.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

but look at it from the other side. What would it take to make sense for the Jackets? If they have the best asset in the deal, it can't be as someone suggested "Monahan + Kylington + 2nd"

Kylington doesn't add any value to the deal, and I don't think a second is enough when comparing Monahan and PLD. maybe The flames do think that's fair. I think the second rounder has to be the first at the very least, to have the Jackets seriously consider a deal.

This is a situation where you have to give to get if the Flames believe PLD is a tier above Monahan.

I think that's it right there: IS Dubois a tier ahead of Monahan? He could be, and if making this trade the Flames would hope so. But from CBJ's perspective Monahan is also very likely a fully developed version of what Dubois will become. It's a risk for both teams, and with Dubois's trade demand becoming public the return is likely going to be limited. There is no certainty that Dubois will ever be any better than Monahan is today.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

but look at it from the other side. What would it take to make sense for the Jackets? If they have the best asset in the deal, it can't be as someone suggested "Monahan + Kylington + 2nd"

Kylington doesn't add any value to the deal, and I don't think a second is enough when comparing Monahan and PLD. maybe The flames do think that's fair. I think the second rounder has to be the first at the very least, to have the Jackets seriously consider a deal.

This is a situation where you have to give to get if the Flames believe PLD is a tier above Monahan.

I have no problem including the 1st.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't think it is and I'm not one of those people salivating over PLD as he's no lock to be an elite 1st line center IMO. Treliving gave up a 1st and two 2nd's for Hamonic who wasn't even a top pairing defenseman.

Hamonic was supposed to a really solid top 3D with some room to improve and he didn't. Great example of a trade that ended up hurting the Flames.

If they trade that kind of package for PLD and he tops out where he is, it will be a huge blow to the Flames.

If the cost is that high and the pro scouts do not think PLD will take the next step then I won't be mad if the Flames don't bite.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

but look at it from the other side. What would it take to make sense for the Jackets? If they have the best asset in the deal, it can't be as someone suggested "Monahan + Kylington + 2nd"

Kylington doesn't add any value to the deal, and I don't think a second is enough when comparing Monahan and PLD. maybe The flames do think that's fair. I think the second rounder has to be the first at the very least, to have the Jackets seriously consider a deal.

This is a situation where you have to give to get if the Flames believe PLD is a tier above Monahan.

How significant is the difference - this is the sixty-four thousand dollar question. And I am not sure that Dubois is at a different 'tier', at least he hasn't proven it yet.

The players were drafted similarly - Dubois 3rd, Monahan 6th in a deep draft.

Both players hit 60 points as a 20 year old. Both players saw their production drop last year.

Dubois is younger, and has some attractive attributes. But we are not talking about players that are on completely different levels here. At least not to this point.

Also Dubois has demanded a trade, which is a bit of a red flag. And things are starting to get ugly. And Columbus is 0-2-0 to start the season. With TBL, CAR, NAS and DAL in their division, they can't fall too far behind or their season is over before it starts.

[BrownDrake]

The guy won’t play out his entry level/bridge contract for the team that drafted him. Move on Tre, I think this guy plays in the big apple as soon as he can. Find us a number one Center who wants to be here long term, I’d rather 2 number 2s than a flight risk spoiled number 1.

[Flames1217]

I would much rather go after someone like Filip Forsberg to be honest.

He would fit in well with our players both in style and age. He would be able to play top line RW, provide a solid all around game and would more than likely re-sign here after his contract is up.

Having a center like PLD would be cool yes but our right side is truly our Achilles heal. This is all of course hypothetical based on if he wants to re-up with Nashville next season.

Bring on the Swedes!!!!