2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours - Page 288 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

SuperMatt18 · 01-14-2021, 01:56 PM

With how Suzuki looked last night I'm not sure I'd trade him if I'm Montreal...he looked dynamic.

Bonded · 01-14-2021, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

Hes 22 years old and still more of a complete player than Monahan could ever hope to be.

I keep seeing this posted but still haven't seen much in the way of support. Do you have any?

Monahammer · 01-14-2021, 02:02 PM

Kyprios gets his info from HF boards, so that's about as worthwhile a claim as anything posted here.

That being said, I think it's a pretty safe bet that the kid WANTS to go home.

ComixZone · 01-14-2021, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonded

I keep seeing this posted but still haven't seen much in the way of support. Do you have any?

2018-2020:

Monahan (56G, 74A, 130P)
CF%: 51.78
SF%: 50.44
GF%: 49.28
xGF%: 50.57
SCF%: 49.63
HDCF%: 50.70
HDGF%: 51.35

Dubois (45G, 65A, 110P)
CF%: 51.74
SF%: 52.43
GF%: 55.66
xGF%: 53.95
SCF%: 54.13
HDCF%: 53.66
HDGF%: 57.52

It's hard to argue that Monahan is better than Dubois, and then you add in the fact that Dubois is 22 while Monahan is 26 and it becomes an even tougher argument to be on Monahan's side.

Enoch Root · 01-14-2021, 02:07 PM

Francophone reporter: where would you like to go? "Well, Montreal would be a dream come true of course."

NY reporter: any preferences on where you would like to go? "Well, NY would be great"

Nelson · 01-14-2021, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonded

I keep seeing this posted but still haven't seen much in the way of support. Do you have any?

https://twitter.com/slapshotshibe/st...368675841?s=21

I can’t quote charts but these charts use the goals above replacement (GAR) metric, takes into account the last 3 seasons and suggests Dubois and Monahan are about equal offensively, but Dubois is significantly better defensively and overall.

Bonded · 01-14-2021, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComixZone

2018-2020:

It's hard to argue that Monahan is better than Dubois, and then you add in the fact that Dubois is 22 and Monahan is 26 and it becomes an even tougher argument to be on Monahan's side.

Yeah, that is a Monahan for PLD trade would be great. I just don't think he is worth Lindholm + Hanifin+ a 1st.

Feels like PLD is overvalued but was wondering if I was missing something around him being a Selke candidate already or something.

Bonded · 01-14-2021, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Francophone reporter: where would you like to go? "Well, Montreal would be a dream come true of course."

NY reporter: any preferences on where you would like to go? "Well, NY would be great"

Edmonton reporter: any preferences on where you would like to go? "Well, anywhere but Edmonton"

CsInMyBlood · 01-14-2021, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonded

Yeah, that is a Monahan for PLD trade would be great. I just don't think he is worth Lindholm + Hanifin+ a 1st.

Feels like PLD is overvalued but was wondering if I was missing something around him being a Selke candidate already or something.

You dont have to be close to a Selke candidate to be better defensively than Sean Monahan.

ComixZone · 01-14-2021, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonded

Yeah, that is a Monahan for PLD trade would be great. I just don't think he is worth Lindholm + Hanifin+ a 1st.

Feels like PLD is overvalued but was wondering if I was missing something around him being a Selke candidate already or something.

Oh definitely agree. Hell no to that type of trade.

Bonded · 01-14-2021, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

You dont have to be close to a Selke candidate to be better defensively than Sean Monahan.

No, but to be worth Lindholm + Hanifin + a 1st you would have to be.

Psytic · 01-14-2021, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonded

Yeah, that is a Monahan for PLD trade would be great. I just don't think he is worth Lindholm + Hanifin+ a 1st.

Feels like PLD is overvalued but was wondering if I was missing something around him being a Selke candidate already or something.

Stats Looks great but then how much better do we expect him to get. Maybe it translates to a consistent 75p player which is awesome. But then the Flames have a hole at RW or Centre again and are not much better off. Something around prospects and a first while keeping Monahan and Lindholm makes the most sense to me. Send out Pelletier, Zary and a pick. Expose Backlund and Gio to the expansion for cap relief. Go for a ufa d man to fill the lower lines. Gio will not be in our top pairing by that point anyway.

SuperMatt18 · 01-14-2021, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

Hes 22 years old and still more of a complete player than Monahan could ever hope to be.

Hes coming into his own and his potential has no ceiling.

I for one do NOT want to watch invisible Monahan in another first round exit.

This reminds me of the time when people on this board wouldn't trade Monahan for MacKinnon. Then MacKinnon came into his own and simply exploded. Now who wouldnt do that trade?

I believe Dubois is about to come into his own. Now is the time to make the move. This opportunity is not going to happen again.

He's more physical than Monahan but he's no better defensively. People talk about him like he's a young Ryan O'Reilly or Patrice Bergeron, and that is not the case at all. The whole reason him and Torts have issues is because his defensive play isn't strong.

I'd still make the trade just because I value that Dubois is 4 years younger, but it's not guaranteed that he's actually that big of an improvement and that he's going to surpass Monahan.

Look at Dubois 21 year old season vs Monahan's 21 year old season. They aren't much different at that age.

Age 21:

Monahan:
G/PG: 0.33
A/PG: 0.38
P/PG: 0.71
+/-: -1
5 points in 4 playoff games

FO%: 51.5%
Hits: 1.41

Hockey Viz Offensive Contribution: +5.5% (Positive Good)
Hockey Viz Defensive Contribution: +6.6% (Positive Bad)

Dubois:
G/PG: 0.25
A/PG: 0.44
P/PG: 0.7
+/-: -2
10 points in 10 points

FO%: 44.6%
Hits/60: 4.06

Hockey Viz Offensive Contribution: +9.9% (Positive Good)
Hockey Viz Defensive Contribution: +6.0% (Positive Bad)

So at the same age Monahan is a better goal scorer and had a better faceoff percentage, Dubois is more physical and a better play driver. Defensively they are about the same, and had issues in their own zones at suppressing chances. Both were PPG in the playoffs in that season.

I'd still make the trade because he's younger so there is more upside there but it's not clear that he's substantially better than Monahan either than being a bit more physical, and there is no guarantee he continues to develop to be anything more than he is today.

jg13 · 01-14-2021, 02:24 PM

PLD Value IMO:

Tkachuk >
Lindholm =
Monahan + 1st =
Gaudreau + 1st =
Monahan <
Gaudreau <

FlameyMcFlameFace · 01-14-2021, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jg13

PLD Value IMO:

Tkachuk >
Lindholm =
Monahan + 1st =
Gaudreau + 1st =
Monahan <
Gaudreau <

Im not agreeing with these Johnny + 1st posts. Am I only one? I think its ridiculous to offer johnny + our 1st for PLD....

SuperMatt18 · 01-14-2021, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlameyMcFlameFace

Im not agreeing with these Johnny + 1st posts. Am I only one? I think its ridiculous to offer johnny + our 1st for PLD....

It's all contract status and age. Johnny is a UFA in 18 months, Dubois is still an RFA when this three year contract expires.

Really though a trade built around Monahan is the only trade that makes sense.

CsInMyBlood · 01-14-2021, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonded

No, but to be worth Lindholm + Hanifin + a 1st you would have to be.

Fair enough. I'm not into gutting the team either. Tkachuk is untouchable. Monahan, our first and second or Zary should be in play. Hanifin is not untouchable to me, but we would need a dman coming back in that case.

Simple math says Columbus needs a first line center coming back. As long as their scouts havent totally watched Monahan his stats read like he is a first line center who is still only 26.

Columbus cannot trade Dubois for draft picks and prospects alone.

jg13 · 01-14-2021, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlameyMcFlameFace

Im not agreeing with these Johnny + 1st posts. Am I only one? I think its ridiculous to offer johnny + our 1st for PLD....

Right now, Johnny + 1st favour CBJ. But in 2 years Johnny is a UFA where as PLD is now entering his prime as a RFA still which clearly favours the Flames long term.

Enoch Root · 01-14-2021, 02:35 PM

I don't like what that trade does to the lines though. To me, a deal built around Monahan makes the most sense.

GioforPM · 01-14-2021, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jg13

Right now, Johnny + 1st favour CBJ. But in 2 years Johnny is a UFA where as PLD is now entering his prime as a RFA still which clearly favours the Flames long term.

In fact, his LNTC which has very favourable terms for him kicks in for next season makes him almost effectively a UFA.