[Signing] Flames sign Jacob Markstrom. (6 yrs, $6mil AAV)

[djsFlames]

Yeah the Flames have enough depth at forward to absorb the blow of mediocre play from the top duo. But even at their poorest, they're good for PP production at least.

As for Gio, Hanifin-Andersson look poised to overtake his pairing as the next 1-2 which would greatly help if he loses another step. Valimaki looks ready to explode, and was already knocking on the door for top 4 minutes when he got his first look.

And if the defense does falter somewhat, luckily we picked up a starter that just bailed out a defensively porous team on a nightly basis for the past two seasons. That helps.

All in all, the Flames simply have a higher floor than Edmonton or Vancouver because of their depth at all positions, which probably has a lot to do with them getting ranked 2nd on many lists. That's to say they can stomach losses or undeperformances by specific players without losing their competitiveness. Van and Edm (and Mtl) have less fail safes and larger red flags.

Also just looking at the last couple seasons, this Flames group has been consistently competitive (outside of a bad month that culminated in Peters' firing) and are coming off two straight playoff seasons. The Canucks and Oilers have been much more inconsistent.

I mean Staples can call the roster 6 lines and 5 pairings deep all he wants, it still lives and dies by two players, and that's always cause for concern.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by stang

I don’t know why it’s unlikely that the top line doesn’t get back to career numbers.

Tanev isn’t a Brodie replacement, he’s more a bit of an upgrade on Hamonic. Hanifin is what he is I’d think. I love seeing him and Andersson on vs Mcdavid. I think the defense is weaker by a lot.

I am not saying the top line gets back to career numbers. Gaudreau the last 3 years: 84, 99, 58 points. Monahan: 64, 82, 58.

They don't need to get back to their highs (and likely won't). But they were WAY off normal numbers last year, and a rebound of some sort seems pretty reasonable.

Agree to disagree on the defense. They will be better than last year. Probably by a fair margin. Even if Hanifin is what he is (unlikely for a 24 yer old defenseman), he is nonetheless significantly better with Andersson than with Hamonic. That is a fact, and that alone makes him better than last year.

And the 3rd pair, Valimaki-Nestorov, is also an improvement.

As for Giordano and Tanev, they will be used for shut-down and PK. Andersson is being slotted in for the PP. That will allow Gio to do what he does bet.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by stang

I’d toss Flames in as a team that could have the wheels fall off too.

Top line underperforms again (or doesn’t overperform depending how you look at it), Gio continues sliding, and Tanev isn’t a good Brodie replacement would put you guys fighting for a playoff spot.

Obviously i am biased but disagree. Flames have Andersson, Valimaki and Hanifin who are all young and could take big steps and adding Markstrom should help. The Flames have proven when things are good they are a top 2 team in the league and after a season chalked full of all kinds of adversity they still made the playoffs.

Obviously injuries can end any teams hopes but the Flames are one of the deepest teams in the division, have one of the best tandems in the league, and some young players that could take a significant step while having most of their key players in or entering their prime

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by stang

I don’t know why it’s unlikely that the top line doesn’t get back to career numbers.

Tanev isn’t a Brodie replacement, he’s more a bit of an upgrade on Hamonic. Hanifin is what he is I’d think. I love seeing him and Andersson on vs Mcdavid. I think the defense is weaker by a lot.

It is highly likely that Tanev is used as the #4, just as Hamonic was, and yes I agree he's an upgrade.

I think Valimaki will be looked to to provide a lot of the things that Brodie did, and all indications point to him being capable of it sooner than later, with the abilities to be a much more complete player overall when he matures.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

It is highly likely that Tanev is used as the #4, just as Hamonic was, and yes I agree he's an upgrade.

I think Valimaki will be looked to to provide a lot of the things that Brodie did, and all indications point to him being capable of it sooner than later, with the abilities to be a much more complete player overall when he matures.

The way I see it

Andersson will replace the role played by Brodie last year

Tanev will replace the role played by Hamonic

Valimaki will replace the role played by Andersson

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The way I see it

Andersson will replace the role played by Brodie last year

Tanev will replace the role played by Hamonic

Valimaki will replace the role played by Andersson

I thought about it a bit and this does make the most sense.

And I think each is capable of that.

[stang]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I am not saying the top line gets back to career numbers. Gaudreau the last 3 years: 84, 99, 58 points. Monahan: 64, 82, 58.

They don't need to get back to their highs (and likely won't). But they were WAY off normal numbers last year, and a rebound of some sort seems pretty reasonable.

Agree to disagree on the defense. They will be better than last year. Probably by a fair margin. Even if Hanifin is what he is (unlikely for a 24 yer old defenseman), he is nonetheless significantly better with Andersson than with Hamonic. That is a fact, and that alone makes him better than last year.

And the 3rd pair, Valimaki-Nestorov, is also an improvement.

As for Giordano and Tanev, they will be used for shut-down and PK. Andersson is being slotted in for the PP. That will allow Gio to do what he does bet.

Yeah I guess if everything goes right. But that’s what I mean their wheels can fall off too.

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Obviously i am biased but disagree. Flames have Andersson, Valimaki and Hanifin who are all young and could take big steps and adding Markstrom should help. The Flames have proven when things are good they are a top 2 team in the league and after a season chalked full of all kinds of adversity they still made the playoffs.

Obviously injuries can end any teams hopes but the Flames are one of the deepest teams in the division, have one of the best tandems in the league, and some young players that could take a significant step while having most of their key players in or entering their prime

I don’t see the depth. Right now your projected 3rd pairing d is a kid who has played like 24 games and a dman who can’t stick for a full season in the NHL.

You guys make fun of other fans when they are this positive about there team.

[AC]

Originally Posted by stang

I don’t see the depth. Right now your projected 3rd pairing d is a kid who has played like 24 games and a dman who can’t stick for a full season in the NHL.

You guys make fun of other fans when they are this positive about there team.

While I agree overall, Valimaki played 24 games 2 years ago and was great. He only hasn't played more because of a couple freak injuries.

He was killing 5 on 3 penalties as a rookie and looked great at both ends of the ice. Expectations are high, but for good reason with Valimaki.

Nesterov is a huge question mark. I think he could be solid as a #6, or fizzle out like so many European defencemen that come over and can't make it work.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by stang

Yeah I guess if everything goes right. But that’s what I mean their wheels can fall off too.

"Everything going right" is the best case scenario; I think Flames fans are rather anticipating that everything will go "as expected," which is in the middle between the best and worst case scenarios. For the Flames 2019 was the best case, while 2020 was the worst—it seems perfectly reasonable to expect things to go better than last year: a year in which the Flames made the playoffs.

Contrast that with the Oilers: everything went perfectly for the Oilers in 2020—that was their "best case scenario" and they STILL missed the playoffs. I think it is a stretch to expect everything to go just as well for Edmonton two years in a row.

[dino7c]

Flames had "everything go right" with a worse team on paper and were first in the west and 2nd overall

Oilers had everything go right and lost in the play in round

[stang]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

"Everything going right" is the best case scenario; I think Flames fans are rather anticipating that everything will go "as expected," which is in the middle between and worst case scenarios. For the Flames 2019 was the best case, while 2020 was the worst—it seems perfectly reasonable to expect things to go better than last year: a year in which the Flames made the playoffs.

Contrast that with the Oilers: everything went perfectly for the Oilers in 2020—that was their "best case scenario" and they STILL missed the playoffs. I think it is a stretch to expect everything to go just as well for Edmonton two years in a row.

Haha no last year wasn’t best case scenario. Give me a break.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by stang

Haha no last year wasn’t best case scenario. Give me a break.

· Two forwards scored a +100-point pace, and one won the Art Ross Trophy.
· The team set a modern-day record in powerplay success-rate.
· Their #1 goalie had a career season.
· They finished on pace to make the playoffs for only the second time in fourteen years.
· The team improved in goals-scored by +28 and in goals-allowed by –23.
· They had three players in the top-ten League-wide shooting percentage (min. 20 GP).

Give ME a break. It was a dream season in Edmonton.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by stang

Yeah I guess if everything goes right. But that’s what I mean their wheels can fall off too.



I don’t see the depth. Right now your projected 3rd pairing d is a kid who has played like 24 games and a dman who can’t stick for a full season in the NHL.

You guys make fun of other fans when they are this positive about there team.

I don't think you understand the pedigree of player that Valamaki is. Those first 24 games he earned his way onto the roster and was playing well until the high ankle sprain took him out for a chunk of the season. He came back and played a couple games against he Aves in the playoff and didn't look out of place.

He is a first round talent and the Flames top prospect.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by stang

Haha no last year wasn’t best case scenario. Give me a break.

Dude, your top two 'elite' players topped out production-wise for you, your PP had what should have been unsustainable numbers for the modern day game but somehow held, your PK overachieved and Koskinen actually put up good starter numbers...

All of that and it managed to get you a 4 point lead on us with one more game played.

And
you
still
missed
the
playoffs.
(*1/14)

So what happens when only half of those things happen for you?

Don't think too hard on it.

[Redrum]

Also, I'm certain that Kailer "middle-6 AHLer, but top line on the Oilers" Yamamoto will continue his PPG pace.

[activeStick]

It's nice to hear from an actual expert that their data shows Markstrom not having allowed a single bad goal in two years or however long it was. Bad goals are huge downers for teams and leads to massive momentum swings. I know a few resident Canuck fans had said as well that Markstrom was good for a weak goal against every couple games, so it's a relief to hear something different from that from an expert.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by activeStick

It's nice to hear from an actual expert that their data shows Markstrom not having allowed a single bad goal in two years or however long it was. Bad goals are huge downers for teams and leads to massive momentum swings. I know a few resident Canuck fans had said as well that Markstrom was good for a weak goal against every couple games, so it's a relief to hear something different from that from an expert.

It's not that he hadn't let a bad goal in. It's that he hadn't let a goal that was an expected save from certain areas, which is something Rittich struggled with. He has an awful habit of letting in goals from the goal line though...

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by activeStick

It's nice to hear from an actual expert that their data shows Markstrom not having allowed a single bad goal in two years or however long it was. Bad goals are huge downers for teams and leads to massive momentum swings. I know a few resident Canuck fans had said as well that Markstrom was good for a weak goal against every couple games, so it's a relief to hear something different from that from an expert.

Originally Posted by Blaster86

It's not that he hadn't let a bad goal in. It's that he hadn't let a goal that was an expected save from certain areas, which is something Rittich struggled with. He has an awful habit of letting in goals from the goal line though...

Not to be a downer but I find it incredibly hard to believe that over the course of a season, albeit a shortened one, that Markstrom (or any clear cut top goalie in the league) didn't let in a single ''bad'' goal. I guess it's subjective in the description of what a bad goal implies, as Blaster's post suggests. But I am sure there is a highlight real somewhere of a goal against Markstrom where Canuck fans might have groaned.

Anyways, the fact that this is even a topic of discussion makes me excited to see him in net, as it sounds like those kind of back-breaking goals are few and far in between. Definitely the highlight of the offseason for me is his signing. Excited to see what him and the other Swedes on the team can do as a unit!

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

But I am sure there is a highlight real somewhere of a goal against Markstrom where Canuck fans might have groaned.

The thing is though there's a lot of fans who have an unrealistic expectation on what is and isn't a bad goal. Some think that if a goal was let in at a bad time it has to be bad.

[old-fart]

I'm excited about Markstrom too but agree with the thoughts that "he didn't let in a single bad goal" is likely overstating things significantly.

In one of AC's highlight videos (Backlund I think) Markstrom let in one through the pads that made me groan...

But, he is a big upgrade over what we had and I'm looking forward to watching him behind a good team.