News from training camp. Stone PTO and maybe forward PTO(Brett Ritchie?). Parsons out

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by RedHawk12

I'm thinking this:
Tkachuk - Lindholm - Mangiapane
Gaudreau - Monahan - Leivo
Bennett - Backlund - Dube
Lucic - Ryan - Simon
Nordstrom

Giordano - Andersson
Hanifin - Tanev
Valimaki - Nesterov
Kylington

Markstrom
Rittich

I think Lindholm is more effective on the wing. and I think Bennett is more effective at C. I would like to see:

Tkachuk - Backlund - Lindholm (against top lines)
Gaudreau - Monahan - Leivo (freed up)
Mangiapane - Bennett - Dube
Lucic/Nord - Ryan - Simon

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I know he has said he wants to see if that’s something he can do to get the best mix of 12 guys and I just was saying why I am not confident that it works because you get less out of other players

Lindholm had 28 games at centre last regular season. My understanding (full disclosure...I haven’t looked into this myself) from listening to Pat Steinberg is that the metrics of his lines were quite strong.

The reason I do want to see Lindholm at C (guilty!) is that in the series against Dallas, Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm were defeated by Dallas’ 4th line at 5 v 5. I know that Monahan scored a lot of PP points, and that is valuable. But to me, Monahan’s lack of 5 v 5 success in the playoffs indicates the Flames need someone with a different skill set as their #1 C. Lindholm’s 28 games, his skill set plus his history playing centre with other organizations makes me think he could potentially offer a different solution.

So, I want to see Lindholm, Backlund and Bennett at C. And then I am open to lines that see either Ryan or Monahan moved to the wing.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

I don't care about the other 46 games but I want to see Lindholm match up against McDavid because Backlund has been a disaster against him.

And if Tkachuk is with him on that line all the better

We have been watching different games...any statistics to support this showing Backlunds performance vs other centers around the league?

[CliffFletcher]

Here's what you need in an NHL centre:

Vision
Skating
Goal scoring
Face-offs
Backchecking
Supporting the d down low in your zone
Zone entries
Passing and puck distribution

Monahan is good at the bolded, and average or poor at every other element. That's why the Gaudreau-Monahan line gets caved in at 5 on 5 once the game tightens up in the playoffs. Opposing coaches lick their chops whenever Monahan lines up against one of their top two lines.

It's time to see if he can play the wing. Lindholm-Backlund-Bennet-Ryan would be a good C depth chart.

[Galakanokis]

Like the depth on this squad this year. I think the signings of Simon, Leivo and Nordstrom are underrated and each are legit NHL players with something to offer. Not top line players by any means but guys that will fill a role and and be effective in it. Third and fourth line depth that will push guys.

Not sold on the D, need young guys to take the next step but lots of potential and guys at the right age to take that step. Hanifin, Andersson and Valimaki had the potential for a great young core. Interested to see who the 6 and 7 guys will be.

Also potential for a really strong goaltending tandem which could be key in a short season.

All in all pretty excited for this year but it doesn't matter what the team looks like on paper. Time is now to put up or shut up.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk

[Flames1217]

Treliving on the fan now!

[Plaedo]

Originally Posted by Flames1217

Treliving on the fan now!

Highlights, anyone?

[Geeoff]

Why are so many people putting Leivo in the top 6? He was the Canucks 13th forward and like 14th forward on the Leafs

[jg13]

His PPG pace would've been 6th on the Flames forwards last year prior to a horrendous injury.

He had 5 goals and 3 assists in his last 11 games and some canuck fans said he was arguably their most complete F before going down.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

Why are so many people putting Leivo in the top 6? He was the Canucks 13th forward and like 14th forward on the Leafs

He has a wicked shot, and honestly never really got a fair shake on either of those teams.

I also wouldn’t mind seeing how Dube or others might fit in with Gaudreau

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

Why are so many people putting Leivo in the top 6? He was the Canucks 13th forward and like 14th forward on the Leafs

https://www.nucksmisconduct.com/2020...couver-canucks

I find this article helpful in understanding why people see potential in Leivo.

I also do not agree that he was the Canucks' 13th F.

[Flames1217]

Originally Posted by Plaedo

Highlights, anyone?

He spoke about giving the new guys a chance to succeed and putting them with good players.

He also re-indicted that players will be tried at different positions(Lindy at C).

Pretty much repeating what has been said the past few weeks.

[Geeoff]

To me based on the contract, the Flames acquired Leivo to be a depth option. I could see him paired with Derek Ryan being a tough bottom 6 line to play against

[jg13]

I don't think a lot of teams wanted to take a chance on him since his injury. He hasn't played in over a year and may not be the same player ever again. But if he is, it's not a stretch at all to see him in the top 9.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...tured-kneecap/

[AC]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

Why are so many people putting Leivo in the top 6? He was the Canucks 13th forward and like 14th forward on the Leafs

His most common linemates last season were Horvat and Pearson. 2nd most were Boeser and Pettersson.

He's absolutely a top 6 option.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by jg13

His PPG pace would've been 6th on the Flames forwards last year prior to a horrendous injury.

He had 5 goals and 3 assists in his last 11 games and some canuck fans said he was arguably their most complete F before going down.

Small sample size though and sometimes it can take a while to acclimate to new team/teammates.

[transplant99]

The message from Flames management Sunday was pretty clear: They’re going to play around with some different combinations, but it’s best not to overreact.

“We’ll go on the ice tomorrow and the big story will be who is playing with who, and I caution everybody that it’s Day 1. It might be different in Day 2, it could be different in Day 3,” said Flames GM Brad Treliving. “I know we’ll tweet out ‘Here’s what’s going on’ but it’s not gospel. I think what we’ll use, whether it be through training camp or even the beginning of the year, we’ve got some good players and we may experiment with some different things.”

“There’s nothing written in stone,” Ward said. “I think we do ourselves a disservice if we don’t take a look, potentially, at what some new people may inject with some of the people we have.

“We know what the lineup was like that we ended the year with and we’re comfortable with that lineup, but I think we’re doing ourselves a disservice if we don’t take the opportunity to see if we have a better potential-lineup than the one we ended with.”

So they are really doing nothing unusual. Going to experiment with new combos but are pretty much fine with how things looked at the end last year.

https://calgarysun.com/sports/flames...line-shuffling

[Enoch Root]

Further to Leivo, he is also 6'2", and a right hand shot. As mentioned, he has a good shot. He is also a solid two-way player, and isn't afraid of physical play.

The other thing is that I think sometimes fans get too hung up on line numberings, and the idea that your best players should be on the top line, and etc. on down the lineup.

IMO, it is better to construct lines that work well together. Leivo brings things that Gaudreau ad Monahan need. And the added benefit is that it frees up Lindholm to play with Tkachuk, which creates two top 2 lines.

It isn't about 'is Leivo a top line player', it is about building the best set of lines possible. And IMO, if Leivo can work on Monahan's line, it sets up the other 3 lines beautifully, and gives the team the most depth throughout the lineup.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Further to Leivo, he is also 6'2", and a right hand shot. As mentioned, he has a good shot. He is also a solid two-way player, and isn't afraid of physical play.

The other thing is that I think sometimes fans get too hung up on line numberings, and the idea that your best players should be on the top line, and etc. on down the lineup.

IMO, it is better to construct lines that work well together. Leivo brings things that Gaudreau ad Monahan need. And the added benefit is that it frees up Lindholm to play with Tkachuk, which creates two top 2 lines.

It isn't about 'is Leivo a top line player', it is about building the best set of lines possible. And IMO, if Leivo can work on Monahan's line, it sets up the other 3 lines beautifully, and gives the team the most depth throughout the lineup.

I will challenge this. What does Leivo bring that they need

What are the knocks on them?

- Too soft. Is Leivo a physical player? 17 hits last year. ( Lindholm puts up around 90 every year )

- Not good enough defensively. The outgoing Lindholm has received Selke votes the last two years and is on the good side of the giveaway / takeaway ratio whereas Leivo is neutral

He is a guy who is 27 years old and has yet to put a full season together. 8 years in the NHL, 169 games. Yes, as he has hit his prime, he stuck with the not very deep Canucks and was about 0.5 points per game, playing with their top players

I see him as a bottom 6 forward on this team talent wise. Mangiapane and arguably Dube have achieved more younger, and have more upside


The problem I have is that these are guys a year removed from being statistically among the very the best lines in the league. They were worse last year and these new average players they are bringing in are not going to elevate the line

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I will challenge this. What does Leivo bring that they need? Right hand shot, and a guy that goes up and down his wing

What are the knocks on them? Who said there were knocks? Every pairing needs something to compliment it. And there is usually more than one way to do that.

- Too soft. Is Leivo a physical player? 17 hits last year. ( Lindholm puts up around 90 every year ) First, I said he wasn't afraid of physical play, I didn't say he was a bruiser. Second, he had no where near as much ice-time as Lindholm, so comparing total hits is misleading. Third, I never claimed that Lindholm wasn't physical. Nor did I claim Lindholm wasn't good on the line. What I suggested is that freeing Lindholm to play with Tkachuk, creates 2 great lines.

- Not good enough defensively. The outgoing Lindholm has received Selke votes the last two years and is on the good side of the giveaway / takeaway ratio whereas Leivo is neutral Their winger doesn't need a Selke nominee in order to function. As long as the player is defensively responsible, that is the important thing. With Lindholm on another line, and Backlund on another one again, that would allow for Monahan's line to get primarily offensive zone starts.

He is a guy who is 27 years old and has yet to put a full season together. 8 years in the NHL, 169 games. Yes, as he has hit his prime, he stuck with the not very deep Canucks and was about 0.5 points per game, playing with their top players It is what he does this year, with the opportunities that are given to him, that matters. And as has been pointed out, he did have some pretty solid success with the Canucks for a period of time, it isn't like he was useless there.

I see him as a bottom 6 forward on this team talent wise. Mangiapane and arguably Dube have achieved more younger, and have more upside You are working on the premise that players should play on lines based on their rankings, which, IMO, is a false premise. Mangiapane and Dube are both great young players, but Leivo is a better fit on Monahan's line IMO. That does not mean that I think he is a better player.


The problem I have is that these are guys a year removed from being statistically among the very the best lines in the league. They were worse last year and these new average players they are bringing in are not going to elevate the line

They haven't been dominant for more than a full season and 2 playoffs. And again, putting Lindholm with Tkachuk creates a much deeper forward group.

Why be against trying something new? If it works, great! If it doesn't, they could always try something else, like maybe Lindholm on that line.