[GT] US election - It's 2020, what could possibly go wrong?

[FlamesAddiction]

Canada has a couple of challenges that don't really apply to most European countries, or even the U.S. when it comes to health care. Doctor shortages create long wait times which is the main criticism of our system. And at the risk of angering some people, we lure way too many doctors from countries that have absolutely horrible healthcare which doesn't help improve things here.

There are a lot of places in Canada that doctors just don't want to live in if they can help it, which creates doctors shortages. When you can ply your trade almost anywhere you want to in North America, it's difficult to convince the best ones to stay in or move to Canada. They can make more money and have a more desirable climate to live in just by going to the country next door. When it comes to luring talented doctors, we aren't a the top of the list for the same reason we aren't at the top of the list for luring top NHL free agents.

Criticizing socialized medicine for these failures is like criticizing Winnipeg for having a lousy film industry.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by peter12

Sure, I get that's the case in America, but I was pretty clearly talking about Canada. Where are the American healthcare lobbyists up here?

American lobbyists don't need to come here, for people to lobby for changes using their talking points.



'Universal bad because of wait times, aging population, abuse of the system, private options good, people are going elsewhere for care rather than dying. Rinse, repeat.'

[Patek23]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Canada has a couple of challenges that don't really apply to most European countries, or even the U.S. when it comes to health care. Doctor shortages create long wait times which is the main criticism of our system. And at the risk of angering some people, we lure way too many doctors from countries that have absolutely horrible healthcare which doesn't help improve things here.

There are a lot of places in Canada that doctors just don't want to live in if they can help it, which creates doctors shortages. When you can ply your trade almost anywhere you want to in North America, it's difficult to convince the best ones to stay in or move to Canada. They can make more money and have a more desirable climate to live in just by going to the country next door. When it comes to luring talented doctors, we aren't a the top of the list for the same reason we aren't at the top of the list for luring top NHL free agents.

Criticizing socialized medicine for these failures is like criticizing Winnipeg for have a lousy film industry.

This is why I’d support some sort of semi-privatization of the current system. If people want to pay for prompt service then let them. It helps ease the financial burden of our current system and helps with current wait times.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Your original point was “Canadians receive poorer care than virtually anyone else in the G20”. With 46 countries in the G20, I took your point as being Canada must rank in the bottom ~10%, somewhere in that 41-46 spot.

Or are you revising your original point to say Canada is somewhere in the mid to low range?

There are ... 20 countries in the G20 hence the name “G20.”

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

This is why I’d support some sort of semi-privatization of the current system. If people want to pay for prompt service then let them. It helps ease the financial burden of our current system and helps with current wait times.

Guess you didn't watch the embedded video where the expert on the system pointed to Australia where they went to that system, and all it did was increase wait times even more. Changing what doctors make doesn't decrease wait times, increasing the number of doctors and clinics with equipment decreases wait times. In a country as large and as sparsely populated as Canada, wait times are going to be an issue to accept. The same problem exists in the western United States where rural medicine is very much like Canada, where you make an appointment weeks or months in advance and then have to travel to a specialist.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by peter12

There are ... 20 countries in the G20 hence the name “G20.”

Wrong again champ. You're not having a very good day. The G20 is comprised of The members of the G20 are Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Canada, China, France, Germany, India, Indonesia, Italy, Japan, Republic of Korea, Mexico, Russia, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, Turkey, the United Kingdom, the United States and the European Union.

The European Union is comprised of 27 nations.

https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/countries_en

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by peter12

There are ... 20 countries in the G20 hence the name “G20.”

BZZZT wrong

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statis...of_Twenty_(G20)

19 countries and the EU27.

[bc-chris]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Canada has a couple of challenges that don't really apply to most European countries, or even the U.S. when it comes to health care. Doctor shortages create long wait times which is the main criticism of our system. And at the risk of angering some people, we lure way too many doctors from countries that have absolutely horrible healthcare which doesn't help improve things here.

There are a lot of places in Canada that doctors just don't want to live in if they can help it, which creates doctors shortages. When you can ply your trade almost anywhere you want to in North America, it's difficult to convince the best ones to stay in or move to Canada. They can make more money and have a more desirable climate to live in just by going to the country next door. When it comes to luring talented doctors, we aren't a the top of the list for the same reason we aren't at the top of the list for luring top NHL free agents.

Criticizing socialized medicine for these failures is like criticizing Winnipeg for have a lousy film industry.

i was reading an article a few weeks ago and there is now a real concern that it will be even harder to attract dr's to canada with a biden administration taking power next month. apparently it was easier to lure talent to canada when trump was in power.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

BZZZT wrong

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statis...of_Twenty_(G20)

19 countries and the EU27.

Fine, I was wrong about that, but my original point that comparisons between the American and Canadian healthcare systems are vacuous and unfair - exploited only for cheap partisan points still stands.

Anyway I forgot how this thread goes.

[The Fonz]

This was said with much conviction:

Originally Posted by peter12

Canadians receive poorer care than virtually anyone else in the G20

Then turns out you don't even know how many countries are in the G20? So was that remark just complete BS?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

This was said with much conviction:



Then turns out you don't even know how many countries are in the G20? So was that remark just complete BS?

Christ this is the standard bull####. Yes, I made a mistake.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by peter12

Anyway I forgot how this thread goes...

... amongst other things, like how many countries there are in the G20 and what the focus of this thread is.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by peter12

Christ this is the standard bull####. Yes, I made a mistake.

I'm not looking for a win, just frustrated that you choose to speak in absolutes on subjects you're not familiar with. It takes away from any informative discussion, which is the reason I log onto CP in the 1st place.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

I'm not looking for a win, just frustrated that you choose to speak in absolutes on subjects you're not familiar with. It takes away from any informative discussion, which is the reason I log onto CP in the 1st place.

Guy, I made one mistake, which detracted from my overall point. That said, I did bring a lot of evidence demonstrating that Canadians do have a poor standard of care compared to a considerable number of OECD countries.

I did this to counter the constant comparisons between Canadian and American systems. Sorry for the mistake, but I think you can see my overall point?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

This is why I’d support some sort of semi-privatization of the current system. If people want to pay for prompt service then let them. It helps ease the financial burden of our current system and helps with current wait times.

I am not completely opposed to adding more privatization. There are many different ways it can be presented and there is likely one that works. It may just be necessary to compete with the US. Whether we like it or not, we are sometimes powerless being within their sphere of influence.

Canada already does have some privatization of services. It has just become detrimental to use them or to set up a practice. It is technically allowed though. If someone has the means to pay for private care, it’s easy enough to go the the US and get the service.

If there is one thing their system is good at, it is making money.

[Roughneck]

It’s always important to remember that the US pays more for public healthcare per person than Canada does, so the idea that adding some privatization means an inherent easing of the burden for the public system is nonsense.

[FlamesAddiction]

Looking at that WHO list, why is South Korea rated so low? I would expect them to be near the top.

Some of the poorer economies in the EU suffer from the same issue as Canada. If you are a doctor in Romania, Poland or Croatia and can move to France or Germany, why wouldn’t you.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

This is why I’d support some sort of semi-privatization of the current system. If people want to pay for prompt service then let them. It helps ease the financial burden of our current system and helps with current wait times.

so you support privitisation by stealth, slowly but surely the wait times get longer and longer as the Government doesnt fund healthcare properly as private health insurance becomes a requirement for every Canadian, becomes part of your work benefits, and becomes the major source of funding just like the states.

In the end only the elderly and destitute rely on the Government system, most doctors, clinics and hospitals wont even look at them as they will only pay a third of what insurance will pay, oh and as more people pay privately you end up with longer wait times as well!!!

GOLDEN

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by peter12

Guy, I made one mistake, which detracted from my overall point. That said, I did bring a lot of evidence demonstrating that Canadians do have a poor standard of care compared to a considerable number of OECD countries.

I did this to counter the constant comparisons between Canadian and American systems. Sorry for the mistake, but I think you can see my overall point?

Your overall point is that we have among the worst healthcare in the world and you're wrong period.

Last year Bloomberg ranked Canada as the #1 healthiest country out of 151 nations including all G-20 and P-20 nations.

Based on a basket of metrics ranging from government healthcare spending to rates of depression, alcohol use, smoking, happiness and exercise, the new index is the latest attempt by economists to evaluate the world beyond economic growth.

Davies’ dashboard ranks Canada highly due to its good scores for blood pressure, life expectancy and government healthcare spending.

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/smaller-...iest-1.1222946

Our healthcare system isn't perfect but I'm glad we have it, I would be interested on what you would do to make it so much better?

[afc wimbledon]

Canada will always lag behind smaller countries with a highly concentrated population base, it isnt possible to provide everyone everywhere with City level good healthcare