Canadian Military News

[undercoverbrother]

RIP Sailor

[fulham]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

RIP Sailor

I met him once; he was dating one of my parents friends. I wonder how something like this happens; as one would imagine that plenty of cameras would be on board. I wonder what the investigation finds.

[Baron von Kriterium]

Apparently Global News will break a story tonight that Government will purchase new aircraft to replace the ageing Polaris fleet.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1339697779002773509

[Fuzz]

Someone tell me if this is a good thing, or if I should be outraged.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Someone tell me if this is a good thing, or if I should be outraged.

I'm not sure how big the need is but buying the whole fleet at once makes sense

[I-Hate-Hulse]

It's got to be the Airbus A330 MRTT's. Used by quite a few of of our NATO Allies, is proven (unlike a KC-46), and is not a Boeing product. Air Transat might have some maintenance capabilities for it too as an A330 operator. Since it can do 3 roles (tanker, transport, VIP transport) the Government can say "See, it's not just for junkets."

Even in VIP Transport configuration, the UK MRTT's can still refuel planes. If Trudeau is smart he'll give up on the flashy liveries Harper added and stick with CAF grey to reinforce this fact.




Plus, there are a lot of used civilian examples on the cheap to pick from right now and sent through the MRTT conversion process. ("Look, used jets - whattadeal!")

Probably the right plane for Canada, but not having the fast jet contract sorted out 1st is terrible optically.

[Madman]

Maybe they'll just buy 88 of those instead.

[Bigtime]

I'd think the leaning would be towards the A330 too. I've only casually followed it but the KC-46 program just doesn't seem to be progressing well.

In addition to Air Transat keep in mind that Air Canada also has 330's in the fleet and has maintenance experience with the type.

[Reaper]

Can you imagine if they announced Bombardier was awarded a no bid contract to replace the fleet? There would be heads exploding across the nation.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Reaper

Can you imagine if they announced Bombardier was awarded a no bid contract to replace the fleet? There would be heads exploding across the nation.

You know prior to this news I thought it would be nice for Canada to have a couple of the CSeries jets to use as VIP/Government transport. A Canadian made modern aircraft flying the flag would have been cool.

I guess now Bombardier only technically makes private jets, so that may be a stretch for them to be used as air to air tankers.

[Nufy]

Originally Posted by Reaper

Can you imagine if they announced Bombardier was awarded a no bid contract to replace the fleet? There would be heads exploding across the nation.

Wait until they announce a new division to start building ###### planes...

[speede5]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

I guess now Bombardier only technically makes private jets, so that may be a stretch for them to be used as air to air tankers.

Can't hop the pond and they are tiny, they are no good for VIP or tankers. Be a nice jet to have flying VIP around the country but that's all they would be good for.

[Julio]

Originally Posted by Reaper

Can you imagine if they announced Bombardier was awarded a no bid contract to replace the fleet? There would be heads exploding across the nation.

Well the RCAF bought a couple of Challenger 650s from Bombardier earlier this year, and any outrage was muted.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Julio

Well the RCAF bought a couple of Challenger 650s from Bombardier earlier this year, and any outrage was muted.

Because the purchase of two planes would be on par with replacing a fleet.

[Julio]

Originally Posted by Reaper

Because the purchase of two planes would be on par with replacing a fleet.

-Well, the 'fleet' is 5, so not hugely more.


-And there are definitely folks that react strongly whenever Bombardier and the federal government are put together.

[CaptainCrunch]

Ruh Roh


https://globalnews.ca/news/7614063/j...ration-honour/

Former chief of defence staff Gen. Jonathan Vance is facing allegations of inappropriate behaviour with two female subordinates, including one regarding an alleged relationship with a woman he significantly outranked.
A source with direct knowledge of the relationship came forward to Global News alleging a relationship with sexually explicit exchanges and repeated private meetings. Global News has viewed evidence that appears to support this, dating from 2019 to as recently as January 2021.

More trouble for the Naval Warship replacement program


https://www.caledonenterprise.com/ne...-60b-warships/

OTTAWA — The Department of National Defence says the first of 15 new warships being built for the Royal Canadian Navy will be delivered years later than expected as officials working on the $60-billion project grapple with unexpected design and construction challenges.

The delay means Canada will need to spend more on its 12 aging Halifax-class frigates to keep them floating longer, and is sure to set off a fresh wave of debate and lobbying around what amounts to the largest military procurement in Canadian history.

The delay does mean the navy will need to continue operating its Halifax-class frigates longer, which means investing more money into the ships and managing how and when they are used.

Defence analyst David Perry of the Canadian Global Affairs Institute expressed concern about the new delay and what it means for the frigates, some of which are dealing with corrosion and metal fatigue that could limit how long they can remain in service.

An internal Defence Department report published last year echoed some of those concerns, saying the navy’s maintenance facilities were having an increasingly tough time repairing the frigates thanks in part to a lack of spare parts and the age of the fleet.

[Baron von Kriterium]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Ruh Roh
https://globalnews.ca/news/7614063/j...ration-honour/

I guess he didn't have time to attend the OP HONOUR briefings.

[Baron von Kriterium]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

More trouble for the Naval Warship replacement program

https://www.caledonenterprise.com/ne...-60b-warships/

Adm Norman joins the discussion.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/navy-needs-to...rman-1.5293499

And while Norman hopes it doesn't reach that point, the former navy commander and vice-chief of the defence staff suggests officials should nonetheless start getting ready for pressure to scale back the number or quality of new ships.

"These are all conversations that I think legitimately, at some point, are going to have to happen," Norman said. "To pretend that they're not going to happen is naive. This is all about tradeoffs at the end of the day."

For his part, Norman is firmly in the camp that if the conversation comes down to significant cuts to the new warships' capabilities or building fewer vessels to save billions of dollars, quality should trump quantity [emphasis added].

"There's only so much blood you can get from that rock or you end up producing something which isn't really a frontline warship anymore," he said. "And ultimately, that's what this is all about."

So, be prepared for one of two things to happen:

(1) due to cost overruns, the Government maintains all of the requirements (quality, in other words), but at a cost of fewer ships (quantity). Quality over quantity; or

(2) due to cost over runs, the Government maintains the quantity of 15 ships, but at a cost of deleting some requirements/capabilities. Quantity over quality, in other words.

Option (1) makes the most sense. Option (2) doesn't make any sense, which probably makes it good odds that the Government will pursue this option.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Well that was quick - the CSC went from the $70B mentioned above to $77B (with a $82B max (i.e. probably) scenario in the PBO's latest report. Looks like a whole host of options were considered, including a mix of Type 26 / 31 as a cost savings means.

NSFW!

This was an interesting read (link), and I'm still working my way though this but this factoid sticks out and drives me nuts:

The United Kingdom’s Royal Navy awarded a contract of ₤3.7 billion to BAE Systems for the manufacture of the first three Type 26 ships in 2017. The ₤3.7 billion contract would suggest a cost of ₤18.5 billion or $31.3 billion CAD for a fleet of 15 ships.27 This is lower than DND’s estimated project cost of $56-60 billion.

This comparison assumes a linear relationship between the number of ships and the cost. It is likely that BAE Systems’ shipyard in Glasgow, Scotland are more experienced than Irving Shipbuilding in Canada, allowing for greater efficiency and productivity, even for the first three ships.

and

The Congressional Budget Office has projected a cost of approximately $12billion real 2020 US dollars,28 or approximately $16 billion CAD (using the average 2019-20 USDCAD exchange rate) for a production run of 10 hulls of the Constellation-class frigate. Assuming a linear relationship between ship quantity and cost, this suggests a procurement cost of 15 vessels for approximately $24 billion real 2020 CAD. This estimate is significantly lower than this report’s estimate of $71 billion CAD for 15 vessels.

I hate to say this but this has all the makings of a cancellation. I can't imagine the people making a hash of one program could make *two* programs running any better. Also Type 31's don't seem to have more than a couple dozen VLS and a deck gun.

I wish the PBO had the guts to call out Government Procurement and flat out say "Buy ships as a fixed-price add on order to the US or UK". Forget about building them here in Canada. No changes to "Canadianize" them permitted.

Maclean's ram this sentiment home with this crazy calculation as to how much better off we'd be if we did this:

“But what about the jobs?!” I can hear the lobbyists cry. Yes, let’s talk about the jobs. According to the government of Canada’s own figures, only 11,100 people are employed in Canada’s shipbuilding industry (we have more massage therapists). If we were to add on those indirectly employed, that number creeps up to 15,200. Now, let’s pretend the Canadian frigate contract is the only shipbuilding job out there, and buying from France would mean every one of those 15,200 people would be out of work. If we were to give each of them $1 million in compensation, Canada would still save over $50 billion (in addition to getting the ships faster).

https://www.macleans.ca/opinion/its-...nada-warships/

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by peter12

What does a sentence like this even mean?

It is probably related to the industrial military complex and it’s relentless addiction for perpetual war.