Use of Native American Imagery in Sports

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by FlamingHomer

So Bill Reid was a well know Northwest Coast Indigenous artist but he's white. What's the rules here?

Let’s see. On top of being of First Nations heritage he did drawings for and contributed to a book of Haida folk tales.

I fail to see where the Canucks have anything close to this after shoplifting or looting the artistic style of their logo.

Nice false equivalency.

[Flamenspiel]

Ah well, as a Flames fan if this news somehow tomahawks the Canucks karma this year then it’s a good thing.

[P-DAZZLE]

Originally Posted by D as in David

I've stopped making spaghetti. Don't want to insult any Italians.

You could have at least thrown in a reference to the Canucks' spaghetti plate logo.

[PaperBagger'14]

Do all cultures/races have implicit rights to things created using similar imagery and style of their heritage? Has this ever happened before in history?

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Do all cultures/races have implicit rights to things created using similar imagery and style of their heritage? Has this ever happened before in history?

Should we begin to question whether this should be only discussed as a part of visual art, or are artforms like music also fair game? Every single song you have heard in person or on the radio contains appropriation and combination of multiple cultures and frames of reference. You have to go back pretty far in music history to find original content.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Should we begin to question whether this should be only discussed as a part of visual art, or are artforms like music also fair game? Every single song you have heard in person or on the radio contains appropriation and combination of multiple cultures and frames of reference. You have to go back pretty far in music history to find original content.

My thoughts went to tattoos, should non Salish tattoo artists be allowed to tattoo in the Satish style even if it's original content? My thoughts are that there would be no issue with a tattoo, but since the canucks have far greater visibility, thats why they are under the scope. Id be happy to be proven wrong though

[FlamesAddiction]

Salish culture is influential on the west coast. Sometimes cultural images become integrated into a larger society because the influence is that powerful.

I get it though, the whole colonialism thing complicates the issue and then it becomes debatable about what was exported through organic cultural contact, and what was appropriated.

Salish were obviously negatively affected by colonialism, but they are also an unconquered people and some of the most industrious people you will find in the Lower Mainland. I would like to think that some of their artistic imagery is organically spreading as a result of their influence and their culture is being projected.

If it is an issue, I expect more will speak out about it.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Should we begin to question whether this should be only discussed as a part of visual art, or are artforms like music also fair game? Every single song you have heard in person or on the radio contains appropriation and combination of multiple cultures and frames of reference. You have to go back pretty far in music history to find original content.

That’s a gross oversimplification.

Most American music from rock to country to jazz was looted from black culture..

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/19/88024...ave-narratives

GROSS: What got you into reading slave narratives and thinking you'd base some songs on them?

GIDDENS: You know, getting into the banjo and discovering that it was an African American instrument, you know, just - it totally turned on its head my idea of American music and then, through that, American history, you know, because the music that we do is all a result of the cultural aspects and the historical aspects that are going on.

It’s the American way, exploit something then call it your own.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

I love Chinese food...can we still call it that?

The vast majority of Chinese food in Canada is totally Westernized and unlike what you would find in China anyways. It would barely be called Chinese food in China
.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Boreal

It’s the American way, exploit something then call it your own.

Well despite being westernized they still call it Chinese food.

[PaperBagger'14]

Grand Chief of Coast Salish Nation says he's not offended by Canucks logo:

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/grand-chief-of...logo-1.5233048

Part of his reasoning for not being offended by the logo is that it doesn't actually resemble Salish traditional art, the logo looks too cartoon-y.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Well despite being westernized they still call it Chinese food.

Who are they?

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Boreal

Who are they?

Reading your post, I assume Estrada was referring to “Americans”.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Well despite being westernized they still call it Chinese food.

It was a marketing thing. Chinese chefs in North America developed a menu inspired by Chinese dishes and marketed that way to advertise it as "exotic".

Now let's talk about Yoga. If ever there was a case of appropriating a culture for capitalistic gain, there it is.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It was a marketing thing. Chinese chefs in North America developed a menu inspired by Chinese dishes and marketed that way to advertise it as "exotic".

Now let's talk about Yoga. If ever there was a case of appropriating a culture for capitalistic gain, there it is.

I'm not sure it was a "marketing" thing. I believe it's as simple as adapting to local tastes. I've had "Chinese food" in Germany that was significantly more German than our North American fare, and certainly not authentic to China either.

edit: though in that sense it's a form of marketing I suppose.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Now let's talk about Yoga. If ever there was a case of appropriating a culture for capitalistic gain, there it is.

Worth it for the pants

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Reading your post, I assume Estrada was referring to “Americans”.

Oh great. It’s about time “Americans” became westernized.

[timun]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Worth it for the pants

[Cole436]

I think the framing of the issue surrounding the Canucks logo by the media a bit disingenuous. Maybe the actual issue is too nuanced for the media. The issue isn't that it's "offensive", but that a corporation is profiting off the image of vulnerable communities without any distribution of the wealth to said community. Even if the communities don't "claim" the art, the logo is overtly evoking indigenous imagery.

Is it appropriate in 2020 for corporations to profit off the likeness of vulnerable groups and say it's "honouring" them? Does "honouring them" help those communities suffering from the clean water crisis? The reserves with infant mortality rates that are on par with developing nations? The systemic poverty affecting indigenous communities? No, it's lip service to make a profit.

I personally believe that the "offensive/not offensive" conversation spurious, and exactly what corporations like the Aquilini group would love us to have instead of the real issue.

I think this is a larger socioeconomic issue than just the Canucks logo.

[Cole436]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Grand Chief of Coast Salish Nation says he's not offended by Canucks logo:

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/grand-chief-of...logo-1.5233048

Part of his reasoning for not being offended by the logo is that it doesn't actually resemble Salish traditional art, the logo looks too cartoon-y.

There is no such thing as the "Coast Salish Nation". And there's no chief of it. ####ing terrible reporting.