In non apocolypse related news...jesus's childhood home may have been found

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

You use Paul as the source as the Jesus writings 3 decades after his death but yet it was Paul who gives the list of 500 people to whom the risen Jesus appeared.



I get it, this is your work but like most things involving religion it's nothing but a massive pile of BS full of hypocrisy.

I am not even talking about religion, here. Rather, the historical roots of a particular religion without any endorsement of the actual beliefs of that particular religion. Do you imagine that Christianity—the most dominant and successful religion of all time—emerged from thin air?

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[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Loosing what? I'm at total peace with my beliefs

A balanced perspective of history, for one. You're like a moon-landing denier.

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[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

We have no day to day records on anything from that period, Jewish courts operated every day and yet we have no records of them because it was 2000 years ago and about 70 years later the Romans laid siege to Jerusalem, burned it to the ground, destroyed anything Jewish and expelled the jews from the region, what we have histories written a few decades later, by their nature histories only mention things that are notable, so Jesus only appears once his 'church' becomes big enough to be worth mentioning

Maybe not day to day, but there's plenty of records up to and after the end of the Herodian era, there are tax records, records of the rebuilding of Herod's Temple and even the stoning death of St Stephen is documented by the Jews and happened right around the same time of so called Jesus and his crucifixion.

I think the story of Jesus is the biggest con job in history, Donald Trump has a way to go!

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Loosing what? I'm at total peace with my beliefs

The comfort and joy of being part of a large community of great people, who share common beliefs. Thankfully our church is quite liberal as to how one chooses to interpret scripture, and there can be a wide divergence in what each member specifically believes.

The enjoyment of great music and singing.

The sharing of ideas, and benefits of the wisdom and lessons earned by past civilizations.

The chance to help others e.g. In from the cold, visiting the sick and infirm, helping those who are alone and in poor spirits, aiding the poor and homeless, etc.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

A balanced perspective of history, for one. You're like a moon-landing denier.

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LOl, If I'm a moon-landing denier, you're a flat-earther.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Maybe not day to day, but there's plenty of records up to and after the end of the Herodian era, there are tax records, records of the rebuilding of Herod's Temple and even the stoning death of St Stephen is documented by the Jews and happened right around the same time of so called Jesus and his crucifixion.

I think the story of Jesus is the biggest con job in history, Donald Trump has a way to go!

No I'm sorry but this isnt true, we have very few records from this era, probably 1/1000th of what was actually recorded and Jesus wasnt in any way important in his time, he was just another wack job they crucified, one of many in this era, we dont know who was the richest trader in Nazereth or who Herod bought his slaves from either, the day to day minutia of that era is gone forever

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

The comfort and joy of being part of a large community of great people, who share common beliefs. Thankfully our church is quite liberal as to how one chooses to interpret scripture, and there can be a wide divergence in what each member specifically believes.

The enjoyment of great music and singing.

The sharing of ideas, and benefits of the wisdom and lessons earned by past civilizations.

The chance to help others e.g. In from the cold, visiting the sick and infirm, helping those who are alone and in poor spirits, aiding the poor and homeless, etc.

I commend you for your charity but make no mistake there are plenty of ways of helping the less fortunate without using a donation plate at a church. I can honestly say 100% of the money,housing and time I've donated to the less fortunate has gone to the people who need it not a tax free church who mostly feed their leader in riches.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Maybe not day to day, but there's plenty of records up to and after the end of the Herodian era, there are tax records...

No, there are not.

...records of the rebuilding of Herod's Temple...

Nope. None of those either. There are stone inscriptions found in the ruins, but nothing like what anyone would expect in the form of official records.

...and even the stoning death of St Stephen is documented by the Jews and happened right around the same time of so called Jesus and his crucifixion.

Hilarious. The first mention if the stoning of the CHRISTIAN martyr Stephen (hhmmmm... what was it he was executed for?) appears in the book of Acts, written sometime at the end of the first century or later.

think the story of Jesus is the biggest con job in history, Donald Trump has a way to go!

Yeah, sure. But there is a huge difference between the STORY of Jesus and the actual persons and events on which this story is based. For whatever reason you have adopted this intractable commitment to believing there is only the story, and nothing else.


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[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by New Era

Great read Text, but I do have a question of two. The Romans and the Jews were meticulous record keepers...

What makes you think so? This is something that contemporary historians or government officials from the time might claim, but since virtually no actual records survive from the period, then we have no idea about how meticulous any of them were. To be clear here, when I speak of "records" in this context it is with reference to court filings (if there even were such things), official imperial and government papers and the like sort. None of these documents have survived.

but there is no record of Jesus, especially his crucifixion. How does this square?

Because no official records have survived from the first century. Period.

I've read the records of Pontius Pilot supposedly exist, but no word of Jesus.

You are misinformed. The only physical evidence for the existence of Pontius Pilate is an inscription excavated from the port of Caesarea, the Gospels, and the writings of Josephus from the end of the first century.

So while I appreciate what you're saying about the Christian documentation to support "historical" Jesus, isn't this just the early oral narrative that was used as the basis for the Church? Why would there not be any documentation from the Romans or Jews to support the existence of this all important figure?

Because he was not an important figure. In his lifetime Jesus was not well known, and he made an almost imperceptible impression on his contemporaries. He was a rather commonplace apocalyptic prophet with a very similar message—how many other apocalyptic Jewish prophets from the first century are we aware of? If anything, it is pretty remarkable that we know anything at all about Jesus.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Yeah, sure. But there is a huge difference between the STORY of Jesus and the actual persons and events on which this story is based. For whatever reason you have adopted this intractable commitment to believing there is only the story, and nothing else.

Honest question?, Do 99.9% people around the world really care about a human being named Jesus, the quick answer is no, Christians want to believe he was the son of god with supernatural powers, non believers just sit back and laugh, the small percentage like you think we should all pay attention to the history of what "might" have been be a real human being.

Very few people care if Jesus was just another poor slob

[afc wimbledon]

I think it is important to realize how precious paper (papyrus) was in those days, it was non existent outside the middle east, writing in most of the world was restricted to Velum, carefully cured and scraped lamb skins, almost no one could afford to write anything, papyrus was far more delicate than paper and in a almost wholly illiterate world would be used sparingly, probably written on both diagonally and horizontally to 'recycle' it for day to day records as this is how paper was used in europe

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Honest question?, Do 99.9% people around the world really care about a human being named Jesus, the quick answer is no, Christians want to believe he was the son of god with supernatural powers, non believers just sit back and laugh, the small percentage like you think we should all pay attention to the history of what "might" have been be a real human being.

Very few people care if Jesus was just another poor slob

It is impossible to understand the history of the west, literature, music, science and philosophy without at least a passing understanding the history of the Church.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Honest question?, Do 99.9% people around the world really care about a human being named Jesus, the quick answer is no, Christians want to believe he was the son of god with supernatural powers, non believers just sit back and laugh, the small percentage like you think we should all pay attention to the history of what "might" have been be a real human being.

Very few people care if Jesus was just another poor slob

Do you think it might be useful to know as much as we can about the most influential religion in the history of the Western world? Something about the origins and development of what was arguably the most significantly impactful social and cultural movement in Western civilization?

A clear understanding of the historical Jesus is all part of that.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

I commend you for your charity but make no mistake there are plenty of ways of helping the less fortunate without using a donation plate at a church. I can honestly say 100% of the money,housing and time I've donated to the less fortunate has gone to the people who need it not a tax free church who mostly feed their leader in riches.

I agree one doesn't have to go to church to be charitable, and you are to be commended for your actions. The church is just one way to do it in a collective manner, and to be one way to dentify many of those who need the help. Also, I don't believe a person has to go to church to believe in religion.

The churches these days are struggling financially to survive, with many congregations aging rapidly. I think last year I heard that the United Church were losing a church a week. In my experience I have never met a rich minister.

I recall our minister meeting a person who said to him, "Why should I go to church, they are all a bunch of hypocrites". Our minister responded, "Come on in, we can always use another one".

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I think it is important to realize how precious paper (papyrus) was in those days, it was non existent outside the middle east, writing in most of the world was restricted to Velum, carefully cured and scraped lamb skins, almost no one could afford to write anything, papyrus was far more delicate than paper and in a almost wholly illiterate world would be used sparingly, probably written on both diagonally and horizontally to 'recycle' it for day to day records as this is how paper was used in europe

Day-to-day records in and around the first century were actually recorded on pot-sherds, which were abundant. We call them "ostraca."

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I recall our minister meeting a person who said to him, "Why should I go to church, they are all a bunch of hypocrites". Our minister responded, "Come on in, we can always use another one".

That's awesome

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Do you think it might be useful to know as much as we can about the most influential religion in the history of the Western world? Something about the origins and development of what was arguably the most significantly impactful social and cultural movement in Western civilization?

A clear understanding of the historical Jesus is all part of that.

I can get with that as long as scholars like yourself are truthful about it.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Honest question?, Do 99.9% people around the world really care about a human being named Jesus, the quick answer is no, Christians want to believe he was the son of god with supernatural powers, non believers just sit back and laugh, the small percentage like you think we should all pay attention to the history of what "might" have been be a real human being.

Very few people care if Jesus was just another poor slob

I think you are wrong here. I think most people have made a choice to whether they believe in God or not would be interested in whether a historical Jesus is likely to have existed. It’s rather sad that you think 99.9% of people lack intellectual curiosity.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by GGG

I think you are wrong here. I think most people have made a choice to whether they believe in God or not would be interested in whether a historical Jesus is likely to have existed. It’s rather sad that you think 99.9% of people lack intellectual curiosity.

My thoughts are religious Christians just plug their ears and atheists could care less, If I'm wrong please post a link where a good percentage people give a damn whether a regular human Jesus existed.

If he did as just a human doesn't it blow away Christianity as a bid fraud?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

It is impossible to understand the history of the west, literature, music, science and philosophy without at least a passing understanding the history of the Church.

Impossible to understand Western culture, full-stop. Including the foundations of modern Western morality that we regard as universal, like human rights.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...E7Mxa55&rank=4