[GT] US election - It's 2020, what could possibly go wrong?

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Really? I used to watch The Apprentice, and my impression of Trump was never that he was a "decent guy." He always carried himself like a bloviating, self-interested narcissist on the show, and there were several instances in which I actively wondered if he had even the slightest bit of business acumen, or if anyone actually took him seriously. In his boardroom appearances his attention was ephemeral, and he was so easily triggered by the most meaningless things. He was so volatile that it was impossible to imagine how he achieved any success through such toxicity. His handling of people who "worked" for him made me cringe, and that was part of the appeal of the show. The Trump we see today was easily projected from the Trump of 2005 when he was a reality TV-show personality.

On the other hand, there was definitely a "funny" quality to Trump, in that he was outrageous but in a non-serious kind of way. He still has that quality to some extent, which allows some people to excuse his behaviour even now - "it's just Trump being Trump, he's not serious".



I can still remember picking up a book of his that was in a vacation house I was renting about 15 years ago, and actually laughing out loud at multiple points throughout it. It was basically just as though he'd dictated it in one sitting, talking about nothing, but doing it in a way that was supposed to make you believe he was some kind of expert on whatever it was he was blabbering about.



Even when he was cutting up the other Republican candidates during the primaries, I thought it was mostly hilarious - precisely because he was not a serious candidate himself (and some of the other candidates were just so clearly loathsome). It really just stopped being funny when it became apparent he had a chance to actually win - and then became stone-cold scary when he actually did.



But I don't have any trouble understanding why he had broad appeal before he actually became a politician. He was just ludicrous.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Really? I used to watch The Apprentice, and my impression of Trump was never that he was a "decent guy." He always carried himself like a bloviating, self-interested narcissist on the show, and there were several instances in which I actively wondered if he had even the slightest bit of business acumen, or if anyone actually took him seriously. In his boardroom appearances his attention was ephemeral, and he was so easily triggered by the most meaningless things. He was so volatile that it was impossible to imagine how he achieved any success through such toxicity. His handling of people who "worked" for him made me cringe, and that was part of the appeal of the show. The Trump we see today was easily projected from the Trump of 2005 when he was a reality TV-show personality.

*EDIT*
After posting this, I found a really terrific analysis of The Apprentice by NPR that was published in 2017. It is illuminating.

https://www.npr.org/2017/10/06/55521...the-apprentice

I never watched a full season of the show, but caught snippets here and there. The guy seemed like a world class jerk even back then.

One thing that struck me about him is how he seemed to loathe anyone that might be smarter than him (or at least not afraid to show him in front of others). That, and the gaslighting crap he pulls.

I had a boss just like that before. You had a choice, correct his mistakes to avoid a disaster, only to deal with his passive aggressive BS and snide comments for weeks afterwards, or don't correct them, and then deal with his denial and blame when things go off the rails.

[Coach]

I used to enjoy The Apprentice with my dad when I was a teenager. The REAL Apprentice, IE when they had actual business people competing for a job, not some B-celebrity sideshow. I have no idea with those people ever ended up working for him, I'm sure I remember hearing it was all a bunch of BS (like most reality TV), but I definitel found it infinitely more interesting than the celebrity version. We stopped watching when it changed.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Coach

I used to enjoy The Apprentice with my dad when I was a teenager. The REAL Apprentice, IE when they had actual business people competing for a job, not some B-celebrity sideshow. I have no idea with those people ever ended up working for him, I'm sure I remember hearing it was all a bunch of BS (like most reality TV), but I definitel found it infinitely more interesting than the celebrity version. We stopped watching when it changed.

The first season or two were actually good. Then it became that typical Mark Burnett Survivor kind of show with ultra-drama and I lost interest.

[direwolf]

So the MAGA cult are marching in DC today. Gotta say, it's pretty sad watching such a large chunk of the American populace falling for Trump's bulls**t claims and becoming so completely detached from reality.

I'm sure Biden will try his best to heal the country, but I just don't see how anyone could possibly reach these people. They're so far down the rabbit hole of crazyville at this point, I doubt they can ever be de-programmed.

[devo22]

yeah those people are gone. Saw a couple interviews earlier from that march today and they will happily waffle about voter fraud, dead people voting, disappearing/appearing ballots (depending on the state, whatever fits their narrative) and their urge for a fair election, not realizing that they've gotten just that. There's no way you could ever convince those people that they have fallen for blatant lies and conspiracy theories.

[devo22]

also, these claims get more and more absurd as time goes on. My god.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1327622627486281730

really hope Twitter kicks him on January 21.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by devo22

also, these claims get more and more absurd as time goes on. My god.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1327622627486281730

really hope Twitter kicks him on January 21.

I hope he starts throwing more attacks at other Republicans. He could do some real damage to the GOP that way.

[activeStick]

Russia's execution of exploiting social media platforms and the American's acceptance of its content as news, to divide the population has been really well done. They've even managed to further divide the American government, all from afar without having to drop Russian bodies into the US.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Russia's execution of exploiting social media platforms and the American's acceptance of its content as news, to divide the population has been really well done. They've even managed to further divide the American government, all from afar without having to drop Russian bodies into the US.

It really is impressive. US has been pretty much completely paralyzed on the international scene while it's so wrapped up in dealing with Trumps insanity, and when they're doing something, their mostly either hurting themselves, aiding the Russians or both.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Is Cuban really that smart a business man? He got very lucky making his fortune cashing in on a dot com bubble company that never even got off the ground. ROI!

And he had this amazing insight in 2011

https://www.thewrap.com/mark-cuban-y...e-money-26452/

Cuban is also a massive China simp. No thanks.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by direwolf

So the MAGA cult are marching in DC today. Gotta say, it's pretty sad watching such a large chunk of the American populace falling for Trump's bulls**t claims and becoming so completely detached from reality.

I'm sure Biden will try his best to heal the country, but I just don't see how anyone could possibly reach these people. They're so far down the rabbit hole of crazyville at this point, I doubt they can ever be de-programmed.

The things I think that could help de-program these people is stronger media oversight and regulation. If you want to purport yourself as a "News" outlet, you must meet set standards. Remove punditry from "News" and start investing that into investigate journalism. Pundits can be relegated to other cable outlets and if their message has any relevance and appeal outside of a 24 hour dedicated "News" station that feeds them a pre-loaded audience it can be free to survive on its own merits.

A complete and thorough investigation, review, and regulation of mainstream social media platforms. Twitter, Facebook, etc. have proven they cannot self-regulate their own users, content, and security, so put measures in that stop these spaces from being havens for hate and misinformation, especially through targeted algorithms. Pop everyone's bubble and never let it form again. You will still have extremist offshoot sites, but perhaps fewer people would dig into those rabbit holes if they didn't have the mainstream access points as cultivating centers.

Mandatory "Critical Media Studies" courses in high school. It's been years since I've graduated, but when I went to school there were small segments of this for a week or two in English. With the digital age and the democratization of making, distributing, and consuming information and media this should be a crucial backbone of primary education. The amount of people I run into who lack basic media literacy skills and critical thinking is astounding. Combine the teaching of these two skills into something people deal with on a daily basis (instead, of say outdated literary sources, though they have their value, too) might make it stick and actually develop. This should help people understand why OANN, The New York Post, Breitbart, and random YouTube videos aren't credible sources.

It's not a short-term approach that would happen under Biden, but I hope his and many other nations' administrations consider some of these steps to halt indoctrination into extremism.

[FlamesAddiction]

I can't for the life of me understand why Americans seem to like the idea of people with little political experience being in the most important political office in the country. Not being a politician doesn't mean someone is less corrupt.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I can't for the life of me understand why Americans seem to like the idea of people with little political experience being in the most important political office in the country. Not being a politician doesn't mean someone is less corrupt.

Sometimes people have nothing to lose. In 2016, some people were pretty down, unemployed for months, even years. There's that underbelly in the US system, lower middle class. Not rich enough to get by, not poor enough to get benefits like Medicaid. Seeing the same corrupt government, R or D, is pretty sad. In fact if the Rs had run anyone other than Trump it would have made no difference. Rs will always lose because they are out of touch. Trump dug into something, in fact he still does. Trump didn't lose this time because he was not politically experienced, he lost because he's a corrupt, narcissistic, unempathic #######. If he does even 10% more on COVID he wins in a landslide. So in the future, if Rs and Ds continue this way, another non politician, with some actual smarts and talents, will take the Trump gameplan and win.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I can't for the life of me understand why Americans seem to like the idea of people with little political experience being in the most important political office in the country. Not being a politician doesn't mean someone is less corrupt.

It's what decades of negative ads will do.

I think banning political attack ads might be something worth trying. Sure you could still attack your adversaries through other means, and obviously you need to be able to criticize your opponent, but I think bombarding your nation with the idea that every candidate is horrible before every election can't be healthy for how people see politics and politicians.

After all, most ads are attack ads now.in the US.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Itse

It's what decades of negative ads will do.



I think banning political attack ads might be something worth trying. Sure you could still attack your adversaries through other means, and obviously you need to be able to criticize your opponent, but I think bombarding your nation with the idea that every candidate is horrible before every election can't be healthy for how people see politics and politicians.



After all, most ads are attack ads now.in the US.

it always shocks me when I watch US sports. Political ad after political ad, attacking the other side. Really weird to see that as a European, that stuff would never fly over here.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by direwolf

So the MAGA cult are marching in DC today. Gotta say, it's pretty sad watching such a large chunk of the American populace falling for Trump's bulls**t claims and becoming so completely detached from reality.

I'm sure Biden will try his best to heal the country, but I just don't see how anyone could possibly reach these people. They're so far down the rabbit hole of crazyville at this point, I doubt they can ever be de-programmed.

The problem is they don't have enough going on in their own lives. They work dead end jobs or live in dead end rural towns and have settled in some way, and need a larger purpose to cling on to. People want that sense of purpose, even if its devoid of substance and truth.

Trump offers them that cause to get behind, even if its largely based in fantasy. It gives them that outlet to feel empowered in a way and avoid taking responsibility for their lives because they can put that blame on conspiracies and oppression of the system.

There's a reason why many educated folk don't fall into trumps trap and have opted for Biden. They have given themselves options in life, they have the ability to realize their own individual purpose and don't rely on someone giving them one, and in many ways have simply learned enough to know better and aren't so easily fooled.

It may be brutal but its no coincidence when you look at the demographics on each side. Trump is the mouthpiece for that victim mentality that a lot of these people feel but refuse to take responsibility for because it's easier to point the finger elsewhere in the form of labels and bigotry.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Itse

It's what decades of negative ads will do.

I think banning political attack ads might be something worth trying. Sure you could still attack your adversaries through other means, and obviously you need to be able to criticize your opponent, but I think bombarding your nation with the idea that every candidate is horrible before every election can't be healthy for how people see politics and politicians.

After all, most ads are attack ads now.in the US.

Originally Posted by devo22

it always shocks me when I watch US sports. Political ad after political ad, attacking the other side. Really weird to see that as a European, that stuff would never fly over here.

The money in US politics is insane. Millions of dollars spent on local elections and propositions.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by devo22

it always shocks me when I watch US sports. Political ad after political ad, attacking the other side. Really weird to see that as a European, that stuff would never fly over here.

I think it's partly multiparty politics that protects us from it. If A and B start fighting dirty, voters can go to party C and D.

In the US voters always have to choose lesser of two evils or not vote, so negative ads have less of a chance of backfiring. As long as you alienate more voters for the opponent than your own voters, you're fine.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Sometimes people have nothing to lose. In 2016, some people were pretty down, unemployed for months, even years. There's that underbelly in the US system, lower middle class. Not rich enough to get by, not poor enough to get benefits like Medicaid. Seeing the same corrupt government, R or D, is pretty sad. In fact if the Rs had run anyone other than Trump it would have made no difference. Rs will always lose because they are out of touch. Trump dug into something, in fact he still does. Trump didn't lose this time because he was not politically experienced, he lost because he's a corrupt, narcissistic, unempathic #######. If he does even 10% more on COVID he wins in a landslide. So in the future, if Rs and Ds continue this way, another non politician, with some actual smarts and talents, will take the Trump gameplan and win.

The unemployment rate was low and within the normal range for an industrialized country. There isn't anything unique about 2016 that jumps out. Every generation thinks they have it tougher than the previous I guess.

But Trump wasn't the first candidate to be an "outisider", nor was he the first president to never have held an elected government position before. I recall a time not that long ago that having military experience was almost essential.

Spoiler!