[GT] US election - It's 2020, what could possibly go wrong?

[photon]

Biden's not getting the PDB as he should be.

Also State Department is refusing to pass on messages to Biden or the transition team from foreign leaders.

Will it be December when the votes are certified before they get access to the stuff they need?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Sorry, which crimes are those?

I agree that he's probably guilty of obstruction of justice, as detailed in the Mueller report. But I'm not aware of anything else that's actually convictable. I suspect he actually has committed sexual assault, for example, but I don't believe for a moment that you could prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. And if obstruction is all you have to go on I don't know that it's worth it.

Fraud, related to Trump University and Trump charities to start.

Falsifying business records, in relation to over-inflating the value of his properties to secure loans and under-reporting income to limit tax exposure.

Lying to investigators, in relation to every investigation ever held against him. When Trump's lips move lies are sure to follow.

Witness tampering, people are going to suggest this has only happened while he was in the White House, but Michael Cohen documented that he intimidated witnesses on behalf of Donald Trump and under his direct orders as part of his duties as his legal counsel.

Tax fraud, which has been well documented with the recent disclosures.

Rape, and there is DNA evidence provided by the victim, E.J. Carroll. Trump has refused to give a DNA sample and has been slow playing this. As a private citizen he can be compelled to give up that evidence during a criminal investigation.

Racketeering, related to the operation of his whole enterprise. The Trump organization is a family run interest, and when I say family I mean la cosa nostra. The Trump family is a criminal enterprise. Is there anyone with a more fitting name than "The Don(ald)?"

Federal charges he could face include obstruction of justice, lying to investigators, and witness tampering, all related to the Mueller probe and the findings from that period.

I see two potential outcomes. One, Trump is pardoned and state officials agree not to pursue any charges that wouldn't be covered by a federal pardon. Two, the white house effectively says, "we're not interfering in any investigations or prosecutions of former president Trump in any way, and the officials responsible for carrying out those prosecutions will do so without any influence from us." I'm not sure which is the right course.

Why in hell would state officials agree not to pursue charges against Trump when they have been building the case for almost a decade in some regards? Trump has gone out his way to abuse his office to try and end prosecutions against him, so why would they let him off? Seems wishful thinking on your part. He may get his pardon, and doge those federal charges, but those state charges are going to leave a mark. On Trump and his brood of related criminals.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by photon

Will it be December when the votes are certified before they get access to the stuff they need?

Maybe not even then.

I dunno, it seems exceedingly unlikely that there will be a coup attempt outside of this annoying bull#### temper tantrum stuff, but until Biden puts his hand on a bible I'm just not sleeping soundly.

[djsFlames]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1326679385966047236



Actually they can totally just start the fumigation right now while they're still in there.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Yep. People think that that we would never allow such an extremist group take root in North America and install a government. That the West has learned it's lesson we think.

However, the Nazis didn't show up on day one of 1933 as the extremists we associate with 1939-1945. They slowly but surely become evil incarnate by chipping away at rights and freedoms, and flouting laws and norms to eventually become what they become.

If Americans allow the Rs to continually chip away at norms, freedoms and laws, who knows what the next Trump will be like.

This is a good point. It’s what Sam Harris discussed on his podcast. If Trump actually had any virtues he would have been exponentially more dangerous.

The corona virus validated just how pathetically lazy and incompetent Trump is. Someone with the virtues of hard work and diligence would have been able shut borders and remake the country into “their vision”, whatever that may be.

All under the auspices of “controlling the virus”.

He was too pathetic useless to even control the virus.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

https://twitter.com/user/status/1326679385966047236



Actually they can totally just start the fumigation right now while they're still in there.

Trump seems to be under the impression that anyone can show up in the middle of counting votes to be a poll watcher.

Every state has their own rules, the common practice is that you need to be qualified and approved by the county well before election night.

He seems to think that mobs of angry people about to lose showing up at the 11th hour demanding to be let in to "observe" should be allowed. That would be intimidation, not observation.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by #-3

That, and parallels aside. People who have spent enough time grappling with history know a few things. American is in no way some special gem that can avoid the pitfalls of past and present regimes. And things in 30s Germany didn't need to turn out the way they did.

When people gain power after telling you they want to steal elections, drive out minorities, prosecute their enemies, you should take them seriously and you should be very very concerned. Weather or not they succeed, you should speak out against it.

And I'm not interested in some intellectual debate on the lefts musing about jailing Trump at this time. He is literally an unindicted conspirator in a crime that has been successfully committed, and the trust of the debate is not about if he is a criminal, it is about weather it is too politically dangerous to convict him of crimes not only everyone knows he has committed but at times he has publicly admitted to committing. And comparisons would be tiresome.

Also not interested in engaging with the rights fantasies about the left trying to steel the election, allegations of defrauding American voters are virtually none existent on a scale sufficient to steal even the 2000 election, and where the do exist they are almost exclusively on behalf of republicans. The projection is getting a little embarrassing.

Finally social infrastructure does not equate to the 1 party oppressive regimes of 20th century eastern Europe. You aren't being oppressed when a duly elected government taxes you to build roads are something. Comparing that to the guys who want to vilify and lock up minorities is just a little silly.

I'm not at all sure what you are trying to say here. Am I sick of Trump? Yes. I have been for four years.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Trump seems to be under the impression that anyone can show up in the middle of counting votes to be a poll watcher.

Every state has their own rules, the common practice is that you need to be qualified and approved by the county well before election night.

He seems to think that mobs of angry people about to lose showing up at the 11th hour demanding to be let in to "observe" should be allowed. That would be intimidation, not observation.

In the Pennsylvania injunction that got dismissed they did come to an agreement that the poll watchers could stand closer then they were being allowed to.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

https://twitter.com/user/status/1326679385966047236

No body wants to report it because it isn't true. The judges in each state have thrown out these suits and warned the lawyers to be careful the ground they tread. The judges have basically said they put their careers on the line for subsequent ethics charges if this stuff continues. Trump would know nothing about that because he has no ethics. He'll ask these lawyers to put their careers on the line to enrich himself. Pathetic excuse for a human being.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Maybe not even then.

I dunno, it seems exceedingly unlikely that there will be a coup attempt outside of this annoying bull#### temper tantrum stuff, but until Biden puts his hand on a bible I'm just not sleeping soundly.

I also believe it’s empty whining. However, his platform makes everything he says seriously dangerous. Delegitimizing the election has my blood boiling and scares me.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GGG

In the Pennsylvania injunction that got dismissed they did come to an agreement that the poll watchers could stand closer then they were being allowed to.

According to Pennsylvania law:

Campaigns and political parties can appoint two or three watchers, respectively, per precinct. Only one poll watcher from each candidate and party is allowed inside the polling place at any given time.

https://www.dos.pa.gov/VotingElectio...AY%2010-16.pdf

There were way more people than they already needed observing the counts. Did some people not get as close as they wanted? Probably. But that doesn't mean that there wasn't an adequate number observers from both sides that were up close.

Trump was citing the images of poll workers blocking "observers" by covering the windows with cardboard. I don't think he understands that those people were not authorized observers, but rather spectators.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

what is dangerous about Trump's wholesale adoption of the demonization of 'the other', the liberal elites, Black lives matter, Antifa and latino's and the like is the basic playbook for a fascist takeover, fascism needs an internal enemy to drive its self forward and persuade the less committed followers to ignore the loss of democracy, no one gives up their freedom unless they are convinced it is neccersary to 'protect' them from some internal threat

It's super awkward when the guy doesn't realize that his rhetoric and political stances follow the exact footsteps of "terrible" fascists of decades past. It's even more awkward when his supporters don't realize that that's essentially what they're rooting for by echoing his statements.

It may be the 21st century in the western world, but what he represents is still no less the textbook definition of fascism. Demonizing a portion of your population due to differing beliefs, then working to convince enough people to discredit the electoral process in order to keep yourself in power are the angles of a fuhrer, not a president.

All I'm saying is that ####s a slippery slope, kids, as history has shown. Tread carefully.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

It's super awkward when the guy doesn't realize that his rhetoric and political stances follow the exact footsteps of "terrible" fascists of decades past. It's even more awkward when his supporters don't realize that that's essentially what they're rooting for by echoing his statements.

It may be the 21st century in the western world, but what he represents is still no less the textbook definition of fascism. Demonizing a portion of your population due to differing beliefs, then working to convince enough people to discredit the electoral process in order to keep yourself in power are the angles of a fuhrer, not a president.

All I'm saying is that ####s a slippery slope, kids, as history has shown. Tread carefully.

And when this is over let’s be really clear how not okay it was. This kind of thing has no place being normalized.

No it’s not okay because he’s a big goofy idiot who says hilarious things sometimes.

[afc wimbledon]

The danger of Trump is that he is such a buffoon that no one takes the danger the US is in seriously, Nixon was forced out by his own party by now, Trump is just being left to chip away at the system and everyone is standing by assuming that at some point he will be stopped but there is no mechanism to stop him if he chooses to ignore the system and no one does anything, basically we are half way into a coup, Trump is just seeing if anyone will stop him, the parallel is not Hitler its Mussolini, who effectively stumbled into power.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Trump seems to be under the impression that anyone can show up in the middle of counting votes to be a poll watcher.

Every state has their own rules, the common practice is that you need to be qualified and approved by the county well before election night.

He seems to think that mobs of angry people about to lose showing up at the 11th hour demanding to be let in to "observe" should be allowed. That would be intimidation, not observation.

Completely agree.

Maybe he should have thought ahead and lined up spectators beforehand. Too bad his arrogance got in the way of that.

It's moot though as he clearly wouldn't accept the result no matter what. He's incapable of conceding, no matter how much evidence is presented. And recognizing this is when alarm bells should be going off in your head if you're any US citizen.

[kermitology]

This was a problem the moment he had access. Kushner is as well. He’s already been suspected of giving state secrets to the Saudi’s.

An unscrupulous president could order up all the intelligence on any foreign leader — their strengths and their vulnerabilities — who he might want to do business with in the future. He would have the full financial intelligence abilities of the U.S. Government. He would know what new investments in top secret military technology we are developing for the next generation. He would know which leaders’ phones we’ve compromised or whose emails we’re reading. He could gather critical sources and methods. And then he could sell them to the highest bidder.

https://t.co/xpXsbTLYyM

He’s already tweeted classified information..

[photon]

https://today.westlaw.com/Document/I.../FullText.html

"The largest law firm representing the Trump campaign or its allies in post-election litigation challenging votes in key states has withdrawn from an election lawsuit in Maricopa County, Arizona.

Associate Presiding Civil Judge Daniel Kiley on Tuesday granted Snell & Wilmer's request to withdraw as counsel of record for the Republican National Committee. The RNC had teamed-up with the Trump campaign and the Arizona Republican Party in the case, which alleges that Maricopa County incorrectly rejected some votes cast on Election Day."

[photon]

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...on/6243778002/

"8 p.m.: Biden holds his edge in AZ as Maricopa County posts more results
President Donald Trump gained ground on President-elect Joe Biden in Arizona on Wednesday evening as Maricopa County posted more results. Trump picked up 1,193 votes on Biden.

Biden still leads in the state tally by 11,635 votes.

The Secretary of State's Office estimates fewer than 25,000 votes remain to be counted statewide, including about 6,700 in Maricopa County."

[photon]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1326728894339309569

[Senator Clay Davis]

FOX and the AP can breathe a sigh of relief, although that doesn't change that their calls were still bad, even if correct.