[Signing] Flames sign Chris Tanev (4 years, $4.5 million AAV)

[ComixZone]

I was not a big fan of the Tanev signing on day 1, but as is the course of fandom, I’m excited about it now. When you look at Game 4 - 11 seconds left or whatever the hell it was - Tanev is the type of defenceman I want on the ice in that moment. I think Tanev should play with Giordano to start to see if the fit is there while Andy lines up with Hanifin to see if they can’t grow together. Meanwhile, Valimaki makes our 3rd pairing one of the best - if not the best - in the entire league.

Yeah, year 3 and 4 may not look that good on the Tanev deal, but this team is still very much constructed to win next season. This off-season has been great. Tree did some nice work for the future, and used his available cap to address issues with the team - including upgrading on what Travis Hamonic was (supposed to be), signing actual NHL-quality depth forwards, and finally addressing the goaltending - which has sucked every season he (Tree) has been here.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Not sure if the Gio from Toronto thing was meant as a dig at me ... but all Dom says about Giordano is "Mark Giordano can still bring the heat", nothing about winning the Norris. Nor would a contract grade result in a Norris pick, so you're just making that up.

Beyond that Giordano makes almost a million less than Suter, so that would factor in, has had elite seasons more recently.

Why would you consider it a dig rather than agreement?

Anyone who is worth 9.5 M / year should be a considered a Norris candidate.

Suter has been grinding out pretty much what would be Gio's career high seasons for the last 5 years except for Gio's magical Norris season.


I would agree that 5.4 x 5 seems a bit high for Suter considering that he will be 40 in year 5. But 9.5 over the next 2 for Gio is not realistic .. He has Morgan Rielly worth 9.2 on the 2 years left on his deal.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

I’m sorry but in no world is Gio worth more than Pietrangelo is per season over the next two seasons... and I’m a big Gio fan.

Pietrangelo would have gotten more than $9.5 on a 2 year deal imo. Just like Gio did, he's taking less at the start of the contract for the total dollar/long term security.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Why would you consider it a dig rather than agreement?

Anyone who is worth 9.5 M / year should be a considered a Norris candidate.

Suter has been grinding out pretty much what would be Gio's career high seasons for the last 5 years except for Gio's magical Norris season.


I would agree that 5.4 x 5 seems a bit high for Suter considering that he will be 40 in year 5. But 9.5 over the next 2 for Gio is not realistic .. He has Morgan Rielly worth 9.2 on the 2 years left on his deal.

I don't know ... history?

If you're going to summarize a model that way don't be lazy ... do them all. Hedman at $20M surplus would push him to $11+ M for example and be the Norris guy.

But go do them all rather than just pulling a number out and calling it a Norris pick.

As per usual with you, this is a rabbit hole. You posted it about Tanev, I replied with his model tendencies and now you are saying the model is predicting a Norris for Giordano.

What's next?

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by Bingo

What's next?

How the flames should have taken the money to create a time machine to sign peak Bobby Orr. Then complain they overspent and should have spent it on a Center because Sean Monahan isn’t a first line C.

[dissentowner]

I like Tanev's game but he gets injured a lot. Glad we have some good depth on D.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I like Tanev's game but he gets injured a lot. Glad we have some good depth on D.

He has an outstanding work ethic, and leaves it all on the ice. If that rubs off on the young guys, he will be worth his contract. I'm definitely putting him in a mentor role.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I like Tanev's game but he gets injured a lot. Glad we have some good depth on D.

I still wonder how much of this may be mitigated by a switch in teams. According to one blog I found Vancouver has consistently been in the top-ten NHL teams for man-games lost to injuries, and in the top-five every year before 2019–20. Meanwhile, Calgary's worst season placed them 15th in 2016, and every year since they have been in the bottom-ten.

On the one hand, it may be Tanev's propensity for injury that has set the Canucks back so consistently; on the other hand, perhaps it has something to do with the Canucks themselves and how they play, train players and treat for injuries.

[P-DAZZLE]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I still wonder how much of this may be mitigated by a switch in teams. According to one blog I found Vancouver has consistently been in the top-ten NHL teams for man-games lost to injuries, and in the top-five every year before 2019–20. Meanwhile, Calgary's worst season placed them 15th in 2016, and every year since they have been in the bottom-ten.

On the one hand, it may be Tanev's propensity for injury that has set the Canucks back so consistently; on the other hand, perhaps it has something to do with the Canucks themselves and how they play, train players and treat for injuries.

I've heard from a friend of a guy that works for the Canucks (the lineup is too spread out at Orange Julius to get good gossip there now) that the Canucks are generally pretty cheap with their support staff. Aquilinis have this rep. Apparently staff have been been given contracts for this coming year that have them paid different amounts depending on what percentage of seats are allowed to be sold this year.

[Doctorfever]

Looking forward to Tanev playing some solid shut down minutes 5 on 5 and eating up all the short handed minutes that he is able to play.

I hope we are able to balance our defence mans minutes in a way that we aren’t overusing Tanev (or Gio), to hopefully minimize injuries.

Tanev sounds like he is a solid teammate and a heart and soul guy. Love that.

We will be transitioning guys like, primarily, Anderson and also guys like Hanifin into more minutes, which is a good thing.

I was sad to see Brodie go, but look forward to seeing how our top 5/6 perform this year.

Also very excited to see Vali in a full season.

We are definitely better on the blue line then we were last year.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I don't know ... history?

If you're going to summarize a model that way don't be lazy ... do them all. Hedman at $20M surplus would push him to $11+ M for example and be the Norris guy.

But go do them all rather than just pulling a number out and calling it a Norris pick.

As per usual with you, this is a rabbit hole. You posted it about Tanev, I replied with his model tendencies and now you are saying the model is predicting a Norris for Giordano.

What's next?

There is a flaw / bias in the model that in my mind makes it not worth considering or even discussing further.

The model has Marc Staal's contract overpriced by 6.5 M ... As his contract is for 5.7 M it sounds like to provide fair value Staal should pay the Wings 800K to play. This is not as bad as Fippula who need to pay the wings 1.3 M to be fair value.

My hyperbole about Gio being a Norris candidate was not meant to taken literally but any defenseman worth 9.5 M year (11.6 % of the cap) should be in the elite top 10 at the very least of the D-men in the League and depending how the chips fall have a shot at the top-3 spots.

[Bingo]

Yeah I think is model rewards recent success (Giordano had a monster 18-19 season), and likes offense more than defense.

I asked him about it on twitter before this even came up here ... his response was something like GMs value defenseman more than they should.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I still wonder how much of this may be mitigated by a switch in teams. According to one blog I found Vancouver has consistently been in the top-ten NHL teams for man-games lost to injuries, and in the top-five every year before 2019–20. Meanwhile, Calgary's worst season placed them 15th in 2016, and every year since they have been in the bottom-ten.

On the one hand, it may be Tanev's propensity for injury that has set the Canucks back so consistently; on the other hand, perhaps it has something to do with the Canucks themselves and how they play, train players and treat for injuries.

Plus, luck has a lot to do with it. I'm old enough to remember "injury prone Backlund".

[TheIronMaiden]

I am only asking here because it is an active thread. Is there a set date for when training camp will start?

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I am only asking here because it is an active thread. Is there a set date for when training camp will start?

I believe there was a report that players were told it could start as early as Nov 15th. That was back around the draft. Obviously things change and we would have heard something if that was the case.

[Bingo]

Saw mention somewhere of a 2 week camp too ...

That would put it in mid December.

[Vinny01]

I am hopeful Tanev has a career year next year and makes himself attractive to Seattle. I just have no faith in years 3-4 of this contract.

I think Tanev tops the list of potential future Kraken for me (knowing the cost to dump Lucic would be at least a 1st)

[Strange Brew]

I’m finding it hard to believe players will be reporting in a week. So little talk of what the season will look like still.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I’m finding it hard to believe players will be reporting in a week. So little talk of what the season will look like still.

They were originally told to be ready for it because there was original talks of December 1st.

I imagine, with the league (possibly) announcing a January 1st start-up in the next week or so, that players will be asked to report in early December.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

They were originally told to be ready for it because there was original talks of December 1st.

I imagine, with the league (possibly) announcing a January 1st start-up in the next week or so, that players will be asked to report in early December.

The NBA is starting December 22 and they have had even less of an off season, so I suppose there is still a chance. They just negotiated a rather major change to their salary cap calculations and there has been no player movement yet at all. Of course the NBA has more TV money at stake and so more motivated to start playing.

It seems increasingly likely the NHL season will start without fans and will be a shortened season. I have to believe the league and players are discussing some mechanism to reduce player costs beyond the 20% escrow. If HRR is down 50% or more, the owners (and indirectly future players) would be fronting the current players more $'s than would be logical IMO.