Who would you vote for?

[#-3]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

CP is left in an Alberta context. 32 per cent of Albertans support Trump, 13 per cent polled on CP. The UCP is certainly far less popular on this forum than in the province overall. Even on matters like religious faith, the sentiments expressed here are far from representative.

I think your conflated Trump (and Kenny) with rightwing ideology. When really the thing that defines them in opposition to the typical CPer is their lack of respect for the institutions of governance.

In general CP is looking for government that works, and those two are arsonist who think if they destroy the institutions of government some invisible hand utopia will spontaneously take control of the economy and guide us to a mythical promise land. Its a childish notion for unserious people who don't respect years of research in behavioral psychology.

And the entire idea that its "conservative" to form your political philosophy on destroying the institutions of governance that currently exist is a little laughable. CPs investment in the status quo or desire to preserve the environment for future generations, is incredibly small c conservative compared to the zealotry of Trumpists.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

You don't even have to express conservative ideals. You just have to question progressive dogmas, and the moral denunciations fly. And you're right, this isn't at all limited to political forums. You see it just as much in hobby sites.

It's down to A) the peculiar makeup of people who spend ####loads of time online, and B) the powerful tendency of forums to eventually become echo-chambers.

Agreed and it is the "Thanks" feature that does this. Canada in general is hilariously left now. Like the Liberals and NDP are actively working together, so I'm not sure how it's even debatable. It's also not good in my opinion and our future in this country is extremely uncertain.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Agreed and it is the "Thanks" feature that does this. Canada in general is hilariously left now. Like the Liberals and NDP are actively working together, so I'm not sure how it's even debatable. It's also not good in my opinion and our future in this country is extremely uncertain.

Alberts in general is insanely right leaning currently. I saw a pole that stated over 85% of Canadians were opposed to Trump and apparently it is only 68% of Albertans. The UCP party is as right leaning as it comes in Canada. It’s also not good in my opinion and our future in this province is extremely uncertain.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by New Era

Really have to jump all over these.

• a) The economy: Trump had the economy doing very well, and they don't have the same confidence in Biden.

Which is really dumb. Implemented policy is not felt for two years after a President takes or leaves office. The great economy was a result of Obama policy. The bottom falling out was a result of Trump policy. Trump strolled into the White House and rode the coat tails of Obama's policy and took credit for stuff he did nothing to encourage. He then went and put in place a tax policy that was nothing but a raiding of the Treasury by the rich. That's when the economy went sideways because there was no money in the system to pay for things, because the rich people just took it all out, like they always do. Democrats spurn on good economies. Republicans spend their way into the bad ones. This has been consistent since the 70s.

• b) Taxes: Biden will probably increase them and who wants to pay more?

Do your friends make more than $400K? Because those are the ones that are going to experience the tax increase.

• c) Trade: Trump has talked tough on trade and worked hard so that the US isn't taken advantage of. Biden would be much softer.

WTF? Trump has been a disaster on trade. Tariffs have been his biggest tool and that has crushed industry in the United States. My god people are dense.

• d) The state of the Democrats: There is a very leftist, socialist element in the democratic party and they should be far away from power.

Such a tired stupid talking point. That leftist/socialist movement is five people out of a party of 280ish people. And those people are all junior members. They have no influence or sway. Otherwise Bernie Sanders would be running against Trump right now. There is no leftist/socialist movement. The only socialism that exists in the United States is corporate socialism and the poor paying for the mistakes of the rich and the corporations. Maybe ask your friends when the last time they as individuals got a bailout, and how much that was? Because Wall Street, the banks, the airlines, the car industry, the fossil fuel industry, and so on have been gifted TRILLIONS in bailouts. Yeah, socialism is a real big fear in this country.

I know you're only the messenger Slava, but holy smokes there are a lot of people out there who don't get it.

The thing is, I've said this before and I'll say it again, you don't change feelings with facts.

While everything you state is factually correct, to most it doesn't feel correct.

A) The Republicans are the ones that are supposed to be good for the economy, that feels right. It doesn't matter that a century of facts demonstrates the exact opposite.

B) Biden says that he'll raise taxes on those making over $400,000. But I don't want to pay more taxes, and if he's gonna raise it on his elitist buddies what's he gonna do for me? I feel like less taxes is always better, no matter what.

C) Isn't Trump the deal maker? He has that book, "The Art of the Deal" he's making deals all the time, his hats are made in China, so I feel like he takes advantage of China. Trump is good for trade, why else would he build golf courses all over the world?

D) I feel like socialism is evil, I mean look at Cuba and Venezuela. Democrats are socialist and therefore evil. Can't have that. If the opposite of evil is good, then Trump must be good!

Now, I don't agree with any of that, but 65+ million Americans do. Showing them the facts isn't going to do a tinker damn. You need to make them feel like you're right, you need to make them feel like you're there for them, you need to make them feel like you're on their side.

Trump is phenomenal at doing that. From what I've seen Biden is likely better at it 1 on 1 which is impressive, however he doesn't play as well a crowd.

Elections are won and lost on feelings. Nothing more.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Alberts in general is insanely right leaning currently. I saw a pole that stated over 85% of Canadians were opposed to Trump and apparently it is only 68% of Albertans. The UCP party is as right leaning as it comes in Canada. It’s also not good in my opinion and our future in this province is extremely uncertain.

I honestly 100% agree

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Alberts in general is insanely right leaning currently. I saw a pole that stated over 85% of Canadians were opposed to Trump and apparently it is only 68% of Albertans. The UCP party is as right leaning as it comes in Canada. It’s also not good in my opinion and our future in this province is extremely uncertain.

So 7/10 Albertans are opposed to Trump while nationally it's 8/10 or maybe even 9/10 depending on the region? Sounds pretty insane indeed.

[81MC]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Alberts in general is insanely right leaning currently. I saw a pole that stated over 85% of Canadians were opposed to Trump and apparently it is only 68% of Albertans. The UCP party is as right leaning as it comes in Canada. It’s also not good in my opinion and our future in this province is extremely uncertain.

Disagree.

Alberta is 2 years removed from an NDP government. UCP received 55% of the popular vote.

Using Trump support as a metric is not reasonable. An average Alberta is likely not well informed on the entirety of Trumps politic, nor are they wholly effected by it. As an example, if a rural Alberta here’s that Trump supports pipelines, they may be less included to ‘oppose’ Trump. This is not a valid indicator of the persons sociopolitical position. And even if it were, considering Trumps perceived friendliness to O+G Development, 32% support would indicate a majority of Albertans are not extremely right wing.

Alberta may be lean right, no doubt. Insanely? Hardly.

I agree the UCP have the ability to be ruinous for our province, but it’s not because Albertans are insane.

[Vinny01]

Insanely right was a poor choice of words.

I think it may also be the extended circle of friends as well. I had to delete Facebook as the increased Trump support, calling BLM a terrorist organization, and debating the validity of the Qanon conspiracy ran rampant on my news feed.

I can’t say those people represent Alberta as a whole and walk back the insanely right comment

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Agreed and it is the "Thanks" feature that does this. Canada in general is hilariously left now. Like the Liberals and NDP are actively working together, so I'm not sure how it's even debatable. It's also not good in my opinion and our future in this country is extremely uncertain.

I agree that the 'thanks' feature has definitely turned this place into an echo chamber.

I often read good discussions where I feel like someone adding thanks to a post will make the discussion go off the rails.

It has sort of become a mini social media chamber where people post stuff to gain likes instead of posting stuff because they want to have a good discussion.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Azure

I agree that the 'thanks' feature has definitely turned this place into an echo chamber.

I often read good discussions where I feel like someone adding thanks to a post will make the discussion go off the rails.

It has sort of become a mini social media chamber where people post stuff to gain likes instead of posting stuff because they want to have a good discussion.

I have to admit there's some irony in me agreeing with your post and thanking it.

[PepsiFree]

I would be entirely surprised if anyone here honestly cared about thanks.

I mean maybe to the extent of “my post got a lot of thanks, glad some people agree,” but not “I will formulate this post for maximum thanks!!!”

Except for Scorp. He loves thanks.

[Flamenspiel]

To answer the original question, I cannot vote as I am a Canadian. I look at the election as a Canadian only, I mean I would like to see some things happen, but they are strictly from a Canadian point of view.

I mean if they went with a radical green shift that forced US companies to shutdown fossil fuel extraction and imported it from Canada it would be great for us. In that case go ahead and elect a big majority Democrat congress. I was worried about Trump because I knew he would tear up NAFTA, and that has been a big problem for us, as have the tariffs, but I don’t see that changing either way.

They is really not much in it for us anymore, the relationship peaked prior to the Obama era and has gone downhill. The “Buy American” rules brought in after Bush really tanked the NAFTA deal for Canada, and there is no turning back.

Beyond that it should be a easier to deal with Biden, but you know he will retain the protectionist policy, it’s too late to change that. Also, the constant obsession with Trump in Canada has been exploited by the left wing parties like the NDP, there will be no more “just like Trump” comments.

When talking to Americans in the last few years, almost all the time I would hear, yea Trump is a dope and a buffoon, but “he is good for my bottom
line”.

[Weitz]

I think a large part of the spread of votes here on CP vs actual votes in the USA differs on the simple fact of how the question is worded.

The question is trump vs Biden. But in reality it’s Republican vs Democrat.

Yea trump is a ####head but in reality it doesn’t matter. How do millions of people abandon what they believe in to vote for a party that falls on the other side of issues as them?

What % of people in the USA over the last 4 years has had their life change to even care about what trump does? Less than 8%?

This is what I have been hearing from my American family and friends.

I’ve been pulling for Biden as I think he will be better for Alberta in certain ways and it will hopefully return some decency in Canada (and the world), but I seriously think a lot of people need to really think about why “trump” got so many votes.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I think a large part of the spread of votes here on CP vs actual votes in the USA differs on the simple fact of how the question is worded.

The question is trump vs Biden. But in reality it’s Republican vs Democrat.

Yea trump is a ####head but in reality it doesn’t matter. How do millions of people abandon what they believe in to vote for a party that falls on the other side of issues as them?

What % of people in the USA over the last 4 years has had their life change to even care about what trump does? Less than 8%?

This is what I have been hearing from my American family and friends.

I’ve been pulling for Biden as I think he will be better for Alberta in certain ways and it will hopefully return some decency in Canada (and the world), but I seriously think a lot of people need to really think about why “trump” got so many votes.

Yes, they do. A big part to me is that both parties redistributed wealth, offshored middle class jobs, and he came in and gave voice to peoples’ concerns and blamed Dems.

No, immigrants didn’t take your jobs on American soil. They were offshored. And the corporations and investors reaped the rewards.

Not that he was going to do anything about it, of course. But he voiced their sentiment in terms of blame

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I would be entirely surprised if anyone here honestly cared about thanks.

I mean maybe to the extent of “my post got a lot of thanks, glad some people agree,” but not “I will formulate this post for maximum thanks!!!”

Except for Scorp. He loves thanks.

Don't kid yourself that's a big reason why the thanks feature ruins forums. It's also a means to gang up on posters and make the place unfriendly to people that want to share an alternative opinion or idea.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Don't kid yourself that's a big reason why the thanks feature ruins forums. It's also a means to gang up on posters and make the place unfriendly to people that want to share an alternative opinion or idea.

Don't buy this at all. The thanks button is usually used so people that feel compelled to comment on a post with "yeah, great post" or "great point" or "you made me smile with that one" don't have to do so. Erick, I appreciate that pretty much none of your posts fall into any of those categories, so that might be why your don't see many thanks for your comments. It isn't that people are against you, its just they don't think you bring much to the table. The "thanks" whores are almost non-existent on this site (you know who you are), so that thanks button really is just short hand for "yeah, I see value in what you just posted" not "let's pick on Erick."

Come on. Press that little button. I know you want to!!!

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by New Era

Don't buy this at all. The thanks button is usually used so people that feel compelled to comment on a post with "yeah, great post" or "great point" or "you made me smile with that one" don't have to do so. Erick, I appreciate that pretty much none of your posts fall into any of those categories, so that might be why your don't see many thanks for your comments. It isn't that people are against you, its just they don't think you bring much to the table. The "thanks" whores are almost non-existent on this site (you know who you are), so that thanks button really is just short hand for "yeah, I see value in what you just posted" not "let's pick on Erick."

Come on. Press that little button. I know you want to!!!

Well that was kind of uncalled for and I will leave it at that.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by New Era

Don't buy this at all. The thanks button is usually used so people that feel compelled to comment on a post with "yeah, great post" or "great point" or "you made me smile with that one" don't have to do so. Erick, I appreciate that pretty much none of your posts fall into any of those categories, so that might be why your don't see many thanks for your comments. It isn't that people are against you, its just they don't think you bring much to the table. The "thanks" whores are almost non-existent on this site (you know who you are), so that thanks button really is just short hand for "yeah, I see value in what you just posted" not "let's pick on Erick."

Come on. Press that little button. I know you want to!!!

The thanks button is clearly a social media dopamine hit. It leads to a lot of the one liner attacks and people trying to blow people up instead of reasonably disagree.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by GGG

The thanks button is clearly a social media dopamine hit. It leads to a lot of the one liner attacks and people trying to blow people up instead of reasonably disagree.

You’re just fishing for thanks from the no-thanks crew. We see you.

[CliffFletcher]

Anyone who says thanks/upvotes don’t affect behaviour on social media forums is being deliberately obtuse. Those tools are the foundation of the whole social media business model. Which is why most companies have resisted calls by mental health advocates to remove them.