[News] Update: Flames sign Johannes Kinnvall to a 2 yr ELC. Will come to NA after 20/21

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Also Boltmann. And Andersson and Hanifin are only 24 and 23 respectively. So the depth, 24 and under, looks like this (LD - RD)

Hanifin.... (23) - Andersson (24)
Valimaki.. (22) - Kylington (23)
Mackey.... (24) - Kinnvall (23)
Poolman.. (24) - Yelesin (24)
Kuznetsov (18) - Boltmann (19)
Poirier...... (18)
Solovyov.. (20)

I would say that is pretty solid depth.

So let's say we iced only these guys as our lineup this year (assuming we didn't have Gio, Tanev, Nesterov or Petrovic):

Hanifin - Andersson
Valimaki - Kylington
Mackey - Kinnvall
Poolman - Yelesin

would this be better or worse than the Oiler's actual D core?

Nurse - Barrie
Jones - Larsson
Russell - Bear
Broberg - Bouchard

(Klefbom is likely out for the season)

Also, Lerby.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

If Seattle selects Tanev then what does it matter if the Flames protected Giordano?

Seattle can only select Tanev if he's left unprotected.

Assuming there will be no additional roster changes between now and the expansion draft to change things up, the Flames will most-certainly protect Andersson and Hanifin. That leaves one of Tanev, Gio, or Kylington for the final spot.

If Tanev fits in well with the team and has a solid season, he should definitely get the final protected spot. Therefore, the only way Seattle would even have the option of selecting Tanev would be if he's left unprotected in favour of Gio (or Kylington if he has a breakout year).

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by getbak

Seattle can only select Tanev if he's left unprotected.

Assuming there will be no additional roster changes between now and the expansion draft to change things up, the Flames will most-certainly protect Andersson and Hanifin. That leaves one of Tanev, Gio, or Kylington for the final spot.

If Tanev fits in well with the team and has a solid season, he should definitely get the final protected spot. Therefore, the only way Seattle would even have the option of selecting Tanev would be if he's left unprotected in favour of Gio (or Kylington if he has a breakout year).

I don't see any way they protect Tanev over Gio. You have to protect your captain out of respect.

Who would be the most tantalizing to Seattle out of:

Tanev (31) $4.5M for 3 years
Kylington (24) pending
Backlund (32) $5.35M for 3 years
Bennett (25) pending
Leivo (28) UFA (assuming he is re-signed)

And who do the Flames want to lose the LEAST?

(I know that Backlund and Bennett wouldn't both be exposed, I am listing guys that might be)

[bigrangy]

If the Flames were willing to expose Gio, Brodie would have re-signed with an NMC.

Seattle won’t even take Tanev.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

If the Flames were willing to expose Gio, Brodie would have re-signed with an NMC.

Seattle won’t even take Tanev.

that's just silly, how many defensemen do you think will be exposed that are better than Tanev?

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

that's just silly, how many defensemen do you think will be exposed that are better than Tanev?

Given they are operating under the same rules that Vegas did, there will be a bunch of decent 4Ds available for them to pick. That's all Tanev is. A 4D. Each team will likely protect 3 dmen so there will be lots of those to choose from. There will probably a dozen or so with better contracts with less term than Tanev too. I bet Seattle does what Vegas did, and loads up on those guys. If I'm Seattle, I'm taking Gio if he's there. Higher trade value, better player, less term.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Given they are operating under the same rules that Vegas did, there will be a bunch of decent 4Ds available for them to pick. That's all Tanev is. A 4D. Each team will likely protect 3 dmen so there will be lots of those to choose from. There will probably a dozen or so with better contracts with less term than Tanev too. I bet Seattle does what Vegas did, and loads up on those guys. If I'm Seattle, I'm taking Gio if he's there. Higher trade value, better player, less term.

Even if you assume he is a 4D, not all top 4 defensemen have to be protected (see Valimaki). There won't be a dozen defensemen better than him available.

Engelland was one of the 2 or 3 best defensemen that were available to Vegas.

[Monahammer]

Tanev has been a top 2 d in Vancouver for the last 6 seasons, but the minute he signs with us he becomes a 4D? Lol

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Tanev has been a top 2 d in Vancouver for the last 6 seasons, but the minute he signs with us he becomes a 4D? Lol

What's so funny about that? Just because you think he was Vancouver's second best dman doesn't mean he's a true 2D. Besides, he wasn't even Vancouver's second best dman, Edler was, and he's not a 2D either. I think its actually quite laughable that you consider Tanev a true 2D. The eye test, standard counting numbers and analytics do not bear that out at all.

If he is a 2D, that contract is like the best in hockey. Imo, it is actually buyout fodder in two years. 2D quality dmen get more than 4x4.5m these days in case you haven't been paying attention.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

What's so funny about that? Just because you think he was Vancouver's second best dman doesn't mean he's a true 2D. Besides, he wasn't even Vancouver's second best dman, Edler was, and he's not a 2D either. I think its actually quite laughable that you consider Tanev a true 2D. The eye test, standard counting numbers and analytics do not bear that out at all.

If he is a 2D, that contract is like the best in hockey. Imo, it is actually buyout fodder in two years. 2D quality dmen get more than 4x4.5m these days in case you haven't been paying attention.

I'm using the only stat that matters when it comes to assigning D a role: ATOI. Tanev has been the second most used defenseman on the Vancouver Roster in every season since 2014 in ATOI.

He's a defensive defenseman who doesn't carry the puck very often. His other stats are certainly going to appear differently. But when Vancouver wanted to shelter their all star rookie offensive D man, they paired him with Tanev, not Edler. That should speak volumes.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Tanev isn’t a 4D lol

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

This gets said sometimes and it isn't true.
Just because a FA prospect attends a development camp - doesn't mean there the team holds any actual rights over the player. The opportunity is to build a relationship and expose the player to your organization. This building of trust is partly what led to Mackey signing with the Flames. But it doesn't work every time - meaning the player can choose to sign elsewhere because they are completely free agents.

Meaning, the Flames didn't let him walk. He chose to sign with another team. The Flames had no rights to the player.

I want to know why anybody named Myers has to be a defenseman in order to make it to the NHL and also why their odds increase if they're 6'5" or taller.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I'm using the only stat that matters when it comes to assigning D a role: ATOI. Tanev has been the second most used defenseman on the Vancouver Roster in every season since 2014 in ATOI.



He's a defensive defenseman who doesn't carry the puck very often. His other stats are certainly going to appear differently. But when Vancouver wanted to shelter their all star rookie offensive D man, they paired him with Tanev, not Edler. That should speak volumes.

Let me guess. You also think there are exactly 31 1Cs in the league. As well, 31 1Gs. You must also think Malkin is a 2C by your logic.

Bad teams place players higher in the lineup than they should be. That icetime argument when determining a player's quality is a pretty poor one when you consider that all 31 teams aren't created equally.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Tanev isn’t a 4D lol

You're right, he definitely hasn't ascended to the 4th dimension. Last I checked he was pretty firmly in the third.

[Monahammer]

IMO we have a really interesting potential D set up for this year already. I see relatively equal time and responsibilities for the following pairings:

Hanifin-Andersson: A pairing we saw work very well together in the play-in/ playoffs.

Valimaki-Tanev: Our own version of the Tanev-Hughes pairing last year.

Giordano-Nesterov: Nesterov being billed as similar to brodie.

Then next season you bring Kinnvall in to Nesterov's spot.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Tanev isn’t a 4D lol

His putrid metrics the last two years suggest I'm being generous.

[1qqaaz]

I wouldn't be mad if Seattle took Tanev.

It would mean the Flames got the best year of his contract, while Seattle takes the rest. Tanev cost the Flames nothing. The Flames would just have more cap space, fewer older players, and then they could just sign someone else.

That would be pretty shrewd, really.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

IMO we have a really interesting potential D set up for this year already. I see relatively equal time and responsibilities for the following pairings:



Hanifin-Andersson: A pairing we saw work very well together in the play-in/ playoffs.



Valimaki-Tanev: Our own version of the Tanev-Hughes pairing last year.



Giordano-Nesterov: Nesterov being billed as similar to brodie.



Then next season you bring Kinnvall in to Nesterov's spot.

If Nesterov is similar to Brodie, why get rid of him at the end of the year? I would say in that case, Tanev was a huge mistake because we won't be able to re-sign Nesterov now lol

Valimaki is hardly Hughes, let's not get crazy. By the numbers, Tanev actually dragged Hughes down last year

Hanifin - Andersson would be a terrible top pair compared to what other contenders ice.

Whatever pair Gio is on, is our top pair. And they aren't going to make him play with a bottom pairing dman.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

If Nesterov is similar to Brodie, why get rid of him at the end of the year? I would say in that case, Tanev was a huge mistake because we won't be able to re-sign Nesterov now lol

Valimaki is hardly Hughes, let's not get crazy. By the numbers, Tanev actually dragged Hughes down last year

Hanifin - Andersson would be a terrible top pair compared to what other contenders ice.

Whatever pair Gio is on, is our top pair. And they aren't going to make him play with a bottom pairing dman.

I don't know why you're so ruffled this morning, you didn't read my post. All pairings would get equal time in my mind, so there's not really a bottom or top pairing, and no one is playing "with a bottom pair d man."

Regarding your comment on Nesterov, he was apparently set to sign a 2m a year contract with LAK, and we weren't going to even have a shot at him. Signing Tanev and signing him are not related at all, we just had the opportunity to get Nesterov because of the COVID cap situation. If he turns out to be as good as advertised, then we will be in an interesting situation next season but we might just have to let him go. He's certainly motivated to perform well this season in hopes of landing a big contract next season, completely independent of our ability to resign him.

I am positive that Tanev did not drag hughes down at all, and if you have stats showing that you should instead take the time to watch some vancouver games this year to augment your stat watching.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I don't know why you're so ruffled this morning, you didn't read my post. All pairings would get equal time in my mind, so there's not really a bottom or top pairing, and no one is playing "with a bottom pair d man."



Regarding your comment on Nesterov, he was apparently set to sign a 2m a year contract with LAK, and we weren't going to even have a shot at him. Signing Tanev and signing him are not related at all, we just had the opportunity to get Nesterov because of the COVID cap situation. If he turns out to be as good as advertised, then we will be in an interesting situation next season but we might just have to let him go. He's certainly motivated to perform well this season in hopes of landing a big contract next season, completely independent of our ability to resign him.



I am positive that Tanev did not drag hughes down at all, and if you have stats showing that you should instead take the time to watch some vancouver games this year to augment your stat watching.

I have watched Vancouver games thanks to my GF who is a Canucks fan. I didn't want the Flames to sign Tanev based on what I've witnessed combined with his advanced stats. He was good a few years ago but is in a clear decline now. He's like a rich man's Kris Russell. I would've been fine on a two year deal but four was Troy Brouwer levels of dumb. Brad Treliving just can’t help himself on ufa day. Never learns from his mistakes, just doubles and triples down all the time. Put the pen down, Brad. Also, stop trading so many picks and we might've already had a home grown, young Tanev instead of having the need to sign the old and broken down one to address gaps in the system you created. BT's management style is that of a snake eating it's own tail.