American Politics Thread: The Hunt for Blue November

[dash_pinched]

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Yoho

https://twitter.com/user/status/1322885591797796866

Not surprising. The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette is a story of corporate interference and the slide toward tabloid journalism. They were once a well respected paper, having won numerous Pulitzer Prizes over their history. They installed a Trumpist as the editor after the 2016 election and reporting was then skewed to favor Trump. It got so bad that they suffered from their good reporters moving on, others being fired, including their Pulitzer Prize winning political cartoonist, and then even restricting coverage of recent events like the BLM protests. Anything that could make Trump look bad was either buried or left out of their coverage. They have become the OANN of print journalism.

For those keeping score, this only Trump's ninth newspaper endorsement. These include the Sheldon Adelson owned Las Vegas Review-Journal, the Rupert Murdoch owned New York Post, the Phillip Anschutz owned Colorado Springs Gazette and Washington Examiner, The Cowles family owned Spokane The Spokesman Review, the Wendy McCaw owned Santa Barbara News Press (also the editor), the William Pape owned Waterbury Republican-American (also the editor), and the Digital First Media owned Boston Herald. That is a murder's row of ideological editorializing and the rapid decay of journalistic integrity in the industry.

For comparison, Biden has the endorsement of 105 print edition papers. McClatchy, one of the largest and most influential chains in the nation has not made an endorsement because of newly instituted rules for making endorsements. McClatcy will only allow endorsements if the candidates are willing to be interviewed by the editorial board. Donald Trump does not give interviews to local papers and as a result the papers are not allowed to give their endorsement, which last cycle went to Clinton, with the exception of the Ft. Worth Star-Telegram who endorsed "not Trump."

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Still just asking questions.

The same... repetitive... disproven... intellectually lazy... questions.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

No one here is happy about Biden as a candidate, but you're going to have to try a hell of a lot harder to make us think he's worse than Trump. Seriously, how could he possibly be worse?

I actually think Biden is a fine choice for the Americans, and this statement is the definition of the no true Scotsman fallacy. Many are just going to Express displeasure with any candidate.

Biden is a flexible political actor who is will to move is policy stances to where the circumstances and people demand at the time, which is exactly what you want in a leader. The demand that they be ideologically consistent their entire career is stupid, you want leaders who can grow and learn.

And I might smack someone if they ever say "but his sons emails".

[Lanny_McDonald]

Is something missing here? Ah, the "freedom" of not having to wear a hajib! Of course that will soon be replaced with the mandatory MAGA hat to show you are a true believer.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1322017459059249152

[JR449]

Originally Posted by #-3

I actually think Biden is a fine choice for the Americans, and this statement is the definition of the no true Scotsman fallacy. Many are just going to Express displeasure with any candidate.

Biden is a flexible political actor who is will to move is policy stances to where the circumstances and people demand at the time, which is exactly what you want in a leader. The demand that they be ideologically consistent their entire career is stupid, you want leaders who can grow and learn.

And I might smack someone if they ever say "but his sons emails".

Just to clear the air. The Prosecutor was at the time investigating the company & The prosecutor is on record saying he was pressured to stop the investigation into the company many times by Ukrainian officials & obama admin officials. But don’t look up the documents or the interview. It might make you mad you actually have to see proof of corruption.

It is the appearance of impropriety. If this were VP Cheney, and the company his daughter worked for, was under investigation, would it be appropriate for VP Cheney to ask that the prosecutor be fired, even if he was corrupt?

It most definitely is a conflict of interest, and the fact that this info is difficult to find is telling. Isn't it also suspicious that the investigation into Burisma was dropped after the new prosecutor took over? Does none of this warrant an investigation ? Is Biden completely immune to all criminal and corruption investigations when running for the democratic nominee (not even running for the Presidency yet)?

Biden withheld $1 billion in aide to have him fired and even bragged about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lA3...ature=youtu.be


Why would the same company hire hunter who has no experience in the industry, is a known drug user, cant speak the language and pay him $83,000 a month. Thats more than Goldman sac's board members with a lifetime of experience and the very best of the industry globally. You cant honestly say this isn’t suspicious, putting an entry level admin into one of the highest positions in a company. How many others on the board were druggies with no experience and couldn’t speak the language?

[calumniate]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Still just asking questions.

Interesting if true!

[bizkitgto]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Let's not lose sight that it was GirlySports who floated this conspiracy theory first.

It's an ongoing FBI investigation...

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by peter12

I really just want to go to sleep now and wake up on November 23.

Do you mean Jan. 21?

[bizkitgto]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Like how they assigned you to infiltrate this forum?

Job well done Tongzi Girly! well maybe not so well....

Oh no, someone said something critical of Joe Biden - they’re obviously working for the Chinese!

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by JR449

Just to clear the air. The Prosecutor was at the time investigating the company & The prosecutor is on record saying he was pressured to stop the investigation into the company many times by Ukrainian officials & obama admin officials. But don’t look up the documents or the interview. It might make you mad you actually have to see proof of corruption.

And just to clear the air, your recall is factually incorrect in a very important way. The removal of this prosecutor was not just at the behest of the United States, but all western democracies, and the timeline is different from what you suggest.

"Vice President Biden was overseeing American policy toward Ukraine at the time, and he did push for the removal of the country’s top prosecutor, who was seen as corrupt or ineffectual by the United States and Western European governments. But there is no evidence he did so to benefit Hunter Biden or the oligarch who owns Burisma, Mykola Zlochevsky."

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/29/b...na-hunter.html

It is the appearance of impropriety. If this were VP Cheney, and the company his daughter worked for, was under investigation, would it be appropriate for VP Cheney to ask that the prosecutor be fired, even if he was corrupt?

False equivalency is false. Hunter Biden was not part of Burisma when the investigation took place. I know this is hard for the reddit set to follow, but there is an actual timeline to be followed here. the investigation into Burisma took place mostly in 2010-2012. Biden did not join until 2014. Ukranian prosecutors had shelved the investigation prior to his arrival.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1WC1LV

"Activists say the case had been sabotaged by Shokin himself. As an example, they say two months before Hunter Biden joined Burisma's board, British authorities had requested information from Shokin's office as part of an investigation into alleged money laundering by Zlochevskiy. Shokin ignored them."

https://www.rferl.org/a/why-was-ukra.../30181445.html

It most definitely is a conflict of interest, and the fact that this info is difficult to find is telling. Isn't it also suspicious that the investigation into Burisma was dropped after the new prosecutor took over? Does none of this warrant an investigation ? Is Biden completely immune to all criminal and corruption investigations when running for the democratic nominee (not even running for the Presidency yet)?

Timeline is again not your friend.

""Ironically, Joe Biden asked Shokin to leave because the prosecutor failed [to pursue] the Burisma investigation, not because Shokin was tough and active with this case," Kaleniuk said."

https://www.rferl.org/a/why-was-ukra.../30181445.html

Biden withheld $1 billion in aide to have him fired and even bragged about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lA3...ature=youtu.be

Yeah, this is bull#### and taken out of context. Timeline doesn't jive.

"Despite a recently concluded investigation by Senate Republicans that found no wrongdoing by the Bidens, claims to the contrary have continued to circulate on social media."

Social media continues to forward these ridiculous claims and the ignorant and intellectually lazy continue to buy them. That's the problem. The reality is very different.

"It's true that Joe Biden leveraged $1 billion in aid to persuade Ukraine to oust its top prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, in March 2016. But it wasn't because Shokin was investigating Burisma. It was because Shokin wasn't pursuing corruption among the country's politicians.

As European and American diplomats pressed Ukraine to clean up its corruption, they focused on Shokin's leadership of the Prosecutor General's Office, which he took over in February 2015."

"As a result, Biden leveraged $1 billion in aid as "a stick to move Ukraine forward," Kupchan said. "He was acting alongside our European allies. Everybody was of a single mind that this prosecutor was not the right guy for the job."

Daria Kaleniuk, the co-founder and executive director of the Anti Corruption Action Centre in Kyiv, Ukraine, credited Biden, the International Monetary Fund — which threatened to delay $40 billion in aid for similar reasons — and others with the prosecutor's removal."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...or/5991434002/

Even with all the evidence that has been produced the uneducated social media consumers continue to lap it up and spin these ridiculous conspiracy theories.

"But sources ranging from former Obama administration officials to an anti-corruption advocate in Ukraine say the official, Viktor Shokin, was ousted for the opposite reason Trump and his allies claim.

It wasn't because Shokin was investigating a natural gas company tied to Biden's son; it was because Shokin wasn't pursuing corruption among the country's politicians, according to a Ukrainian official and four former American officials who specialized in Ukraine and Europe.

Shokin's inaction prompted international calls for his ouster and ultimately resulted in his removal by Ukraine's parliament."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...or/3785620002/

Again, there is nothing here.

"Burisma Holdings was not under scrutiny at the time Joe Biden called for Shokin to be removed, per the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine, an independent agency that has worked closely with the FBI.

In 2014, Shokin had investigated Burisma for money laundering and tax irregularities, per USA TODAY.

The probe focused on 2010-12, according to the National Anti-Corruption Bureau.

Hunter Biden — who joined the board in 2014 and served on it until early 2019 — was not the subject of the investigation."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...or/5991434002/

"Special anti-corruption prosecutor Nazar Kholodnytsky ruled out involvement by Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden or his son, Hunter. Anti-corruption bureau director Artem Sytnyk implicated Zlochevsky, another former Burisma employee and two former tax officials."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...er/ar-BB15tn31

Why would the same company hire hunter who has no experience in the industry, is a known drug user, cant speak the language and pay him $83,000 a month. Thats more than Goldman sac's board members with a lifetime of experience and the very best of the industry globally. You cant honestly say this isn’t suspicious, putting an entry level admin into one of the highest positions in a company. How many others on the board were druggies with no experience and couldn’t speak the language?

They were actually trying to use Hunter Biden's name to rebuild their credibility, not leverage it to kill an investigation. The investigation had been completed long before Hunter Biden joined Burisma.

"A Ukrainian investigation of gas company Burisma is focused solely on activity that took place before Hunter Biden, son of former U.S. Vice President Joe Biden, was hired to sit on its board, Ukraine’s anti-corruption investigation agency said."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1WC1LV

It is sad how easily you were led astray by a bunch of reframed social media nonsense when the facts are just so easy to find and confirm through multiple cedible sources.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by JR449

Just to clear the air. The Prosecutor was at the time investigating the company & The prosecutor is on record saying he was pressured to stop the investigation into the company many times by Ukrainian officials & obama admin officials. But don’t look up the documents or the interview. It might make you mad you actually have to see proof of corruption.

It is the appearance of impropriety. If this were VP Cheney, and the company his daughter worked for, was under investigation, would it be appropriate for VP Cheney to ask that the prosecutor be fired, even if he was corrupt?

It most definitely is a conflict of interest, and the fact that this info is difficult to find is telling. Isn't it also suspicious that the investigation into Burisma was dropped after the new prosecutor took over? Does none of this warrant an investigation ? Is Biden completely immune to all criminal and corruption investigations when running for the democratic nominee (not even running for the Presidency yet)?

Biden withheld $1 billion in aide to have him fired and even bragged about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lA3...ature=youtu.be


Why would the same company hire hunter who has no experience in the industry, is a known drug user, cant speak the language and pay him $83,000 a month. Thats more than Goldman sac's board members with a lifetime of experience and the very best of the industry globally. You cant honestly say this isn’t suspicious, putting an entry level admin into one of the highest positions in a company. How many others on the board were druggies with no experience and couldn’t speak the language?

Well if we know anything it is that William Barr's DOJ is in the back pocket of Joe Biden, must be the reason why your obviously super credible theory has not been investigated.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by bizkitgto

It's an ongoing FBI investigation...

How do we know this? The FBI does not discuss ongoing investigations and do not tell people they interview what investigations they are being brought in for. You're taking the word of a discredited source (by Fox News no less) and a claim made by Giuliani, who by his own actions have discredited himself. You're going to have to step your game way up and stop making claims that are not provable in any way.

[bizkitgto]

Originally Posted by New Era

How do we know this? The FBI does not discuss ongoing investigations and do not tell people they interview what investigations they are being brought in for. You're taking the word of a discredited source (by Fox News no less) and a claim made by Giuliani, who by his own actions have discredited himself. You're going to have to step your game way up and stop making claims that are not provable in any way.

The FBI opened an investigation into Hunter Biden and associates in 2019 on suspicion of money laundering, a Justice Department official told Sinclair Broadcasting.

The criminal investigation is ongoing, the DOJ official said.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/news.yah...222323906.html

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by bizkitgto

Trump deserves to rot in jail just as much as Obama, Clinton and Biden do... why did they destroy Libya again? They destroyed a country... and got away with it. Following the Clean Break memo, just as Bush and the neo-cons did. But we don’t want to talk about that. We can all pretend Biden is a “good man”, for the sake of the Republic, right?

There is a stuff about Obama I don’t like but he is a very respectable and competent human being.

I wish he were still in charge right now.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by bizkitgto

The FBI opened an investigation into Hunter Biden and associates in 2019 on suspicion of money laundering, a Justice Department official told Sinclair Broadcasting.

The criminal investigation is ongoing, the DOJ official said.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/news.yah...222323906.html

Sigh.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/202...leged-n1245533

Try reading this article. But you won’t because it’s filled with actual journalism and facts. Plus it’s more than 200 words.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Like how they assigned you to infiltrate this forum?

Job well done Tongzi Girly! well maybe not so well....

Regardless of anyone's politics, comments like this should have no place on the forum and deserve some time in the sin bin.

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by bizkitgto

Oh no, someone said something critical of Joe Biden - they’re obviously working for the Chinese!

I don't see anyone arguing with you. Many agree, yourself included, that of the two - Biden is the better choice over Trump.

You can be critical of Biden all you want around here. Many are. Why do you keep railing against something that isn't happening?

[bizkitgto]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

I don't see anyone arguing with you. We all agree, yourself included, that of the two - Biden is the better choice over Trump.

You can be critical of Biden all you want around here. Many are. Why do you keep railing against something that isn't happening?

Did you read the comment I was replying to?

[SportsJunky]

That's just the last post that I read from you. That's why I quoted it.

You keep banging the "Biden is a bad dude" drum. Why? You are shouting at clouds.