2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

I really dislike all the Monahan smoke.

But what if I miss the days of Ben Street: First Line Center?

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Tkachuk is almost never played on the RW. I’d imagine it’s because he doesn’t like it. And he had zero success with Johnny and Monahan (or with Gaudreau and Lindholm)

https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/...atthew-tkachuk

I'm not sure you can conclude much about Tkachuk-Monahan EV. 3% last year and 7% the year before; pt production not far off.

It works on the PP, and 6on5...


I've been thinking something very similar to FusionX; I'd swap Dube and Lindholm since I think he would help Bennett even more, and Gaudreau needs a more proven goal scorer:

Tkachuk - Monahan - Dubé
Gaudreau - Bennett - Lindholm
Mangiapane - Backlund - Leivo
Lucic - Ryan - Simon
Nordstrom/Gawdin/Robinson

Hanifin - Andersson
Valimaki-Tanev
Gio - Kylington/Nesterov
Mackey

The other change I'd make is Gio to 3rd pair with Kylington. Once or twice a period you give him an extra shift with Tanev to bump his minutes up and keep Valimaki's down. Gio-Tanev will be PK1 pair so it should become natural.

[Enoch Root]

Tkachuk - Monahan - Dube
Gaudreau - Bennett - Leivo
Mangiapane - Backlund - Lindholm

I don't care which order you put them in, because they're pretty equal.

(you could also switch Dube and Mangiapane - in fact I think I prefer it)

[djsFlames]

I know you guys are excited by his most recent showing but let's stop plugging Bennett in as the 2C before he's successfully played 3C for even a season. How many times have we done this.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Tkachuk - Monahan - Dube
Gaudreau - Bennett - Leivo
Mangiapane - Backlund - Lindholm

I don't care which order you put them in, because they're pretty equal.

(you could also switch Dube and Mangiapane - in fact I think I prefer it)

Yes please to the swap.

I love Dube, and think he’s going to be great. But I don’t know what everyone else saw last season who are pencilling him on lines that don’t provide significant defensive support. The guy has a lot to learn, and gets lost on the ice often.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

I know you guys are excited by his most recent showing but let's stop plugging Bennett in as the 2C before he's successfully played 3C for even a season. How many times have we done this.

If Monahan and Gaudreau are split up, we are going to have 3 balanced lines. It isn't about 1st, 2nd or 3rd line, that is such a simplistic way to look at it.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Yes please to the swap.

I love Dube, and think he’s going to be great. But I don’t know what everyone else saw last season who are pencilling him on lines that don’t provide significant defensive support. The guy has a lot to learn, and gets lost on the ice often.

Yeah, Backlund and Lindholm give him more than enough support. And Mangiapane provides a more complete game to go with Tkachuk and Monahan. So:

Tkachuk - Monahan - Mangiapane
Dube - Backlund - Lindholm
Gaudreau - Bennett - Leivo

(moving Bennett to the '3rd line )

[neo45]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

I know you guys are excited by his most recent showing but let's stop plugging Bennett in as the 2C before he's successfully played 3C for even a season. How many times have we done this.

Moving Bennett way too far up the hypothetical lineup is a CP offseason tradition.

The unfortunate reality is that Bennett likely ends up fighting for a spot in the lineup, in the bottom six, on the wing with players like Simon and Nordstrom

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

I know you guys are excited by his most recent showing but let's stop plugging Bennett in as the 2C before he's successfully played 3C for even a season. How many times have we done this.

It's hockey talk.

Fun > realism

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

I know you guys are excited by his most recent showing but let's stop plugging Bennett in as the 2C before he's successfully played 3C for even a season. How many times have we done this.

Some players play better as a 2C than a 3C though. They're different roles, and this idea that a player has to make miracles happen down the lineup before they can succeed up the lineup is, in my opinion, false.

For example, I don't think our own Monahan could do what Derek Ryan did at 3C last year. But that doesn't mean I wanted Ryan in Monahan's line.

I personally think Bennett deserves a legitimate shot at 2C. It's very possible that the reason he's had such a disappointing career relative to expectations is because he's been slotted wrong. Of course others will throw around hyperbolic claims about a lack of hockey sense or skill or whatever, but did Bennett look out of place on the 2nd line with Backlund in his rookie year? Or did he look out of place on the 3rd line with Granlund? I think it was obvious who he looked out of place with.

This isn't because I want Bennett to succeed (though, of course I do).

This is because I want the Flames to succeed, and it's possible Bennett's aggregate skillset is the answer to that.

Continue what you've been doing, and you'll probably get the same results you've been getting.

Take a risk, maybe it doesn't work out, maybe it does, but at least you'll see different results.

I want different results.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It's hockey talk.

Fun > realism

Now that's a reasonable response and one I can support.

[JTech780]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

I know you guys are excited by his most recent showing but let's stop plugging Bennett in as the 2C before he's successfully played 3C for even a season. How many times have we done this.

1. I think the forward group needs a shake up. I think Gaudreau and Monahan have become stale playing together, they are too predictable and rely on each other too much. Teams know that if they put pressure on Gaudreau at the offensive blueline that he will turn it over or dump it in, if he dumps it Monahan isn't capable of retrieving the puck.

2. If Gaudreau isn't playing with Monahan, Bennett makes the most sense to me. Bennett can push the defense back with his speed, he can retrieve pucks in the corners and he will go hard to the net. I think he will open up a lot of ice for Gaudreau so he can do Gaudreau things.

Putting Bennett and Gaudreau together is more about finding ways to get the most of Gaudreau, than putting him with the best finisher.

There is a very good chance that Gaudreau and Bennett don't work, but Gaudreau and Monahan haven't really been working that great since January of 2019.

[Robbob]

Sometimes I wonder what would have been if Gaudreau scored in OT instead of Pavelski sliding across and getting a piece of the shot.

As much as I think the group needs a bit of a shake up, I understand why a move isn't being made for the sake of making a move. Last things the Flames need is paint themselves into a corner and the result is a one for one trade similar to the Hall one.

My hope, if everyone comes back, is there is a bit of a return to the team a couple years ago where the depth allowed for the lines to come in waves. I do think that the team is young enough that the team can potentially move forward if players keep progressing. Andersson, Valamiki, Hanifin, Klyington, Dube, Mangipane, Tkachuk, and Bennett are all still young players. Hell even Monahan, Gaudreau, and Lindholm are still pretty young.

Even if you leave off that last group of players you have almost half the roster that should/could make a step forward.

The only thing that makes me leery of trading Monahan without a centre prospect coming back, is understanding Backlund is on the back nine. You really don't know how many productive years he has left or if he will be around after the expansion draft. What this team looks like down the middle will be interesting to see in a couple years, which is why if Monahan is traded, it has to be be for the right pieces for a long term solution.

[Jacks]

I don't see any reason to split up Lucic - Bennett - Dube, they seem to mesh together perfectly. Not only did Bennett look better but Lucic also which is a major bonus. Dube might be just fine on other lines but he fit in well with those two. If anything I'd switch up things a bit in the top 2 lines, move Tkachuk up with Lindholm and let them be 1A/1B with Gaudreau and Mony.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Jacks

I don't see any reason to split up Lucic - Bennett - Dube, they seem to mesh together perfectly. Not only did Bennett look better but Lucic also which is a major bonus. Dube might be just fine on other lines but he fit in well with those two. If anything I'd switch up things a bit in the top 2 lines, move Tkachuk up with Lindholm and let them be 1A/1B with Gaudreau and Mony.

Gaudreau-Monahan-Mangiapane
Tkachuk-Backlund-Lindholm

Is this what you're proposing? I would like to see it, but I think many posters here will assume that the first line would get caved in physically.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Gaudreau-Monahan-Mangiapane
Tkachuk-Backlund-Lindholm

Is this what you're proposing? I would like to see it, but I think many posters here will assume that the first line would get caved in physically.

And defensively its bad. Dube is better than Mangiapane defensively IMO.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Tkachuk - Monahan - Dube
Gaudreau - Bennett - Leivo
Mangiapane - Backlund - Lindholm

I don't care which order you put them in, because they're pretty equal.

(you could also switch Dube and Mangiapane - in fact I think I prefer it)

The problem with line #1 is that 2 of the 3 skaters lack foot speed.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Gaudreau-Monahan-Mangiapane
Tkachuk-Backlund-Lindholm

Is this what you're proposing? I would like to see it, but I think many posters here will assume that the first line would get caved in physically.

When I look at those lines, I see Tkachuk-Backlund-Lindholm as the first line, and Gaudreau-Monahan-Mangiapane as a pretty damn stellar #2. If Tkachuk continues to improve, Backlund stays on last year's form, and Lindholm bounces back from the awful things he had to deal with off-ice, that might be a decent way to go. But then, I've been saying privately for some time that the way to fix the Flames' forward group is not to split up or replace 13 and 23, but to build a new #1 line and push them down the roster.

13-23-88 might be easy to push around and pretty weak defensively, but as a second line with sheltered usage they could be very productive.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Rick M.

The problem with line #1 is that 2 of the 3 skaters lack foot speed.

Agreed.

Tkachuk - Backlund - Mangiapane
Dube - Monahan - Lindholm
Gaudreau - Bennett - Leivo

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Rick M.

The problem with line #1 is that 2 of the 3 skaters lack foot speed.

The lack of foot speed among our top forwards is still the number one issue in my opinion. In the Dallas series, it became apparent that they can't attack fast enough before a team with fast defenders can close the gap. It led to a lot of dump and chase which I don't think plays to the strengths of players like Gaudreau.

They could usually make up for the lack of foot speed with quick short passes, but when that failed, there wasn't much to fall back on.