[News] UPD: Coyotes renounce the rights to draft pick Mitchell Miller

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by cannon7

He was a kid. As a father of a developmentally challenged child, I think its sick that society is pulling out pitchforks for something a 14 year old did. Do you remember being 14? Deny it all you want, but you did stupid things at 14. Some of the comments here are disgusting. I guarantee there are posters here who went through juvenile hall (or whatever the Canadian equivalent is), learned from it and are well-adjusted adults today. We can't afford an 18 year old the same opportunity? Sad.

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Nobody said this is "kids being kids" you're making that up.

As for rational posters, I was pretty clear in my post that the people not being rational should start. Why is that so hard for people to accept?

That's long form generalizing of exactly "kids being kids" as it implies we have all done stupid things, as if the pattern of this person's behavior is equivalent to things we have all done. I don't believe that is true, but I do believe it diminishes this horrific behaviour in the vein of "we've all done stupid things". I'm not making anything up.

Perhaps I misinterpreted the target of your OP, but it wasn't as specific as you claim it to be and I ran with a follow-up. I think we agree that there are some clear overreactions in the thread.

[Matt Reeeeead]

I will say that often with a kid showing that behaviour that they are often victims themselves, even at the age of 14. So I have empathy for the home conditions that led him to developing into the monster that he was, however, absolutely does not justify the behaviour.

I would be very open to the idea of giving a second chance towards someone like that if they were able to apologize, show remorse, and start making real efforts to bettering those around them in their community, and taking real accountability for their actions and prevent others from following the same path.

That does not sound at all like what is happening here. If there is no true remorse, it shouldn't be up to an NHL team to "show him the way" and invest resources and time in him. That is taking away the opportunity from someone far more deserving of the investment, and not as a direct result of overlooking shortcomings because of hockey talent.

Looking forward to gathering more information here, but based on the current evidence that we have, I don't find the Coyotes' use of the draft choice justifiable, and their statement justifying this decision is quite lacking for me. It's absolutely not their job to fix someone. It is their job to promote equality internally and externally and they can do that without acting as a half way house for troubled kids.

[jonesy]

I hope he surprises us all, plays for Phoenix, and spends lots of spare time and money volunteering and supporting the organizations that help his former patsy. I hope it turns out as good as it could for all its crappy, cruddy beginning.

[Matata]

With the public scrutiny and his hockey career hopefully moving him away from the circumstance that made him this way in the first place, the kid's got a legitimate, and likely final, shot at redemption. This is a big enough story to guarantee someone at the coyotes office is scrambling to find a psychologist to send to this kid so they can save their brand and prospect.

[Strange Brew]

Upon reading the entire article, his USHL coach spoke highly of his character and said that he had owned his actions.

But the magistrate at the time certainly thought little of his attitude and ripped him a new one.

The Toledo Blade report said "people closest to him can't say enough good things about him". But then some unnamed NHL scouts saying he didn't interview well or wasn't forthcoming.

A written apology was produced for the media but the family states it was never received.

It was just a despicable thing to do, that is a cold hard fact. None of us here are in much of a position to judge whether there is true remorse in his heart and it's hard not be emotionally affected by the appalling nature of what he did.

The mother of the bullied child believes the Coyotes should have contacted the family before drafting him. What do people think of that?

I also wonder if they would have had the means to do so. I would have thought court records of crimes like this involving minors would have kept the names of the victim confidential.

[shermanator]

Originally Posted by cannon7

He was a kid. As a father of a developmentally challenged child, I think its sick that society is pulling out pitchforks for something a 14 year old did. Do you remember being 14? Deny it all you want, but you did stupid things at 14. Some of the comments here are disgusting. I guarantee there are posters here who went through juvenile hall (or whatever the Canadian equivalent is), learned from it and are well-adjusted adults today. We can't afford an 18 year old the same opportunity? Sad.

As someone who was bullied extensively around the same age as the victim, this comment pisses me off to no end. For me, the damage done during those years will never be reversed. Thankfully I've gotten away from those who did harm and found people who appreciate me for who I am. I'm 37 now, and the negative effects to my self esteem still creep up on me at times.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Again - why does his second chance include a possible NHL career?
It is an incredible fortunate and small group of people that even have a remote chance of that. I'm comfortable saying that based on his behavior and how he treated someone - that opportunity is gone for him.
Doesn't mean his life is over. 99.9999999% of us will never have an NHL career.
Why does he get that opportunity? Eff him.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Again - why does his second chance include a possible NHL career?
It is an incredible fortunate and small group of people that even have a remote chance of that. I'm comfortable saying that based on his behavior and how he treated someone - that opportunity is gone for him.
Doesn't mean his life is over. 99.9999999% of us will never have an NHL career.
Why does he get that opportunity? Eff him.

Quote from the Coyotes in the article:

"Given our priorities on diversity and inclusion, we believe that we are in the best position to guide Mitchell into becoming a leader for this cause and preventing bullying and racism now and in the future. As an organization, we have made our expectations very clear to him. We are willing to work with Mitchell and put in the time, effort, and energy and provide him with the necessary resources and platform to confront bullying and racism. This isn’t a story about excuses or justifications. It’s a story about reflection, growth, and community impact. A true leader finds ways for every person to contribute to the solution. We all need to be a part of the solution.”

They clearly see some potential for the lad to grow into a mature adult who recognizes his mistake(s) and can become a better person for it. Mitchell is a little $hit for what he has done no doubt, but he was 14. Put the pitchforks away guys and lets see if something good can stem from this before we burn him at the stake.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by cannon7

He was a kid. As a father of a developmentally challenged child, I think its sick that society is pulling out pitchforks for something a 14 year old did. Do you remember being 14? Deny it all you want, but you did stupid things at 14. Some of the comments here are disgusting. I guarantee there are posters here who went through juvenile hall (or whatever the Canadian equivalent is), learned from it and are well-adjusted adults today. We can't afford an 18 year old the same opportunity? Sad.

I would've sided with you in giving this person a chance but most teams interviewed him as a young adult - 18 years old, not as a 14 year-old - that's enough of an opportunity already. Most, if not all, likely found him unfit for their team. As a young person maturing into an adult, it's either you get enlightened or you continue to be what you're molded to be. Unfortunately, his parents molded him to be "Not Good!".

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Again - why does his second chance include a possible NHL career?
It is an incredible fortunate and small group of people that even have a remote chance of that. I'm comfortable saying that based on his behavior and how he treated someone - that opportunity is gone for him.
Doesn't mean his life is over. 99.9999999% of us will never have an NHL career.
Why does he get that opportunity? Eff him.

I don't think many people are suggesting that he gets a free pass from hockey perspective, or that his NHL dreams shouldn't be impacted by what he did. It's almost a moot point because there is no question this is going to follow him around now that it has come to light, as it should.

I concede that by someone drafting him it puts him one step closer to the NHL versus going undrafted, but are you suggesting that Bettman should step in and ban him from the NHL? It sounds like teams have already made a point of not wanting anything to do with him, so the slim prospect of an NHL career and the millions of dollars that come with it are likely already out the window. I'd also be okay if he gets to suffer the mental anguish of having to deal with this for the rest of his hockey career and beyond... it might give him a glimpse of what he did to the victim in this case.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

I don't think many people are suggesting that he gets a free pass from hockey perspective, or that his NHL dreams shouldn't be impacted by what he did. It's almost a moot point because there is no question this is going to follow him around now that it has come to light, as it should.

I concede that by someone drafting him it puts him one step closer to the NHL versus going undrafted, but are you suggesting that Bettman should step in and ban him from the NHL? It sounds like teams have already made a point of not wanting anything to do with him, so the slim prospect of an NHL career and the millions of dollars that come with it are likely already out the window. I'd also be okay if he gets to suffer the mental anguish of having to deal with this for the rest of his hockey career and beyond... it might give him a glimpse of what he did to the victim in this case.

No I would have put the onus on the teams not to draft him at all. Which most of them did.

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by getbak

And if they didn't know about this before drafting him, it doesn't reflect well on them either. Armstrong doesn't even get a pass for being a new GM because he was the Blues' AGM and Director of Amateur Scouting last season, so he should have known everything about the kid's past.

Armstrong wasn't allowed to take part in the draft though.

[monkeyman]

Pretty disgusting behaviour at any age.
I applaud Isaiah Meyer-Crothers for having the courage to talk about it and shine a light on it. I hope Miller has a fraction of the courage Meyer-Crothers has shown moving forward, because how he responds now will speak volumes about what his character.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by cannon7

He was a kid. As a father of a developmentally challenged child, I think its sick that society is pulling out pitchforks for something a 14 year old did. Do you remember being 14? Deny it all you want, but you did stupid things at 14. Some of the comments here are disgusting. I guarantee there are posters here who went through juvenile hall (or whatever the Canadian equivalent is), learned from it and are well-adjusted adults today. We can't afford an 18 year old the same opportunity? Sad.

You sound like a terrific father! I grew up with a disability; I remember as a kid, kids bullying me and putting dry ice into my hands and holding them shut until they were badly burned; Another picked me up while I was standing off of the floor with one finger behind each ear. The pain was absolutely unbearable at the time and I still cringe to think about it. The hurt within cut pretty deep, I remember running home in tears asking my mom "why"? Sadly, she didn't have an answer! As I got older I spent many years traveling to different schools educating people about disabilities. The way to help society is for people like myself to get out and educated others that we are people, that we like being included. I try to remind people that everyone is special, and unique!

As for the 14 year old I totally agree, however it appeasers from what we know so far that he apparently does not show a lot of remorse. The apology is important because the individual who was deeply hurt needs to experience healing. Too often those who are able, "as normal" look down and frown on those who carry the bigger cross. This is not acceptable, everyone can and should be a positive voice for those who those who can not always speak for themselves!

[FiveSeven]

Wrong is wrong, but at that age a lot worse things were happening to me and worse to the special ed kids in my school. One of the guys that bullied me is a good player in the NHL. I just moved on with my life instead of spreading the stories publicly. If I wasn't introverted and despised spotlight maybe I would do the same but thats not the case.

I don't know what good can come from bringing up the past. I guess he deserves it but your character is hardly established at that age. Hopefully he grew to not be a dick and learns even more from this spotlight, but hardly deserves the full force of the left.

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

Coyotes should have steered clear. People need second chances, but not sure that was the way to do it. Invite to training camp maybe with some groundrules? Coyotes are a ####show this year

Literally the hardest team to be a fan of in the history of sports.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by shermanator

As someone who was bullied extensively around the same age as the victim, this comment pisses me off to no end. For me, the damage done during those years will never be reversed. Thankfully I've gotten away from those who did harm and found people who appreciate me for who I am. I'm 37 now, and the negative effects to my self esteem still creep up on me at times.

People make mistakes. Your bully might even regret what he/she did to you. There's a lifetime between 14 and 37. People change. You've likely changed considerably over that time. And you can still change. You can forgive that broken 14 year old that bullied you 23 years ago. Not forget, forgive.

You're likely not alone in feeling this way. I can only assume this is, at least in part, where some of this vitriol for a young man none of us have ever met comes from. I have an equally, yet opposite, visceral reaction to those so willing to close their hearts and minds.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

You sound like a terrific father! I grew up with a disability; I remember as a kid, kids bullying me and putting dry ice into my hands and holding them shut until they were badly burned; Another picked me up while I was standing off of the floor with one finger behind each ear. The pain was absolutely unbearable at the time and I still cringe to think about it. The hurt within cut pretty deep, I remember running home in tears asking my mom "why"? Sadly, she didn't have an answer! As I got older I spent many years traveling to different schools educating people about disabilities. The way to help society is for people like myself to get out and educated others that we are people, that we like being included. I try to remind people that everyone is special, and unique!

Thanks for insulting my parental skills based on a post.

I have a daughter with down syndrome. She was bullied growing up. When I witnessed it my first instinct was violence. But I didn't go with my first instinct. My second instinct was to take the bully aside and have a private conversation with them. I explained to them that while my daughter didn't act like the other kids, she still felt the same when bullied. I'd then ask the bully what they would think if my daughter was their sister and they saw someone else bullying them. Without fail they'd say they wouldn't like it. Then I'd tell them I don't like it. And neither does she. Then I'd ask if it will stop. Without fail, they'd say yes. Even if they weren't sure if they meant it. Then I'd tell them I was going to hold them to it. And they would. Even the kids I was certain would reoffend. At least with my daughter, they didn't.

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

As for the 14 year old I totally agree, however it appeasers from what we know so far that he apparently does not show a lot of remorse. The apology is important because the individual who was deeply hurt needs to experience healing. Too often those who are able, "as normal" look down and frown on those who carry the bigger cross. This is not acceptable, everyone can and should be a positive voice for those who those who can not always speak for themselves!

You know what kind of people have trouble showing remorse? People on the autism spectrum. How do you know this young man isn't on the spectrum? You don't. And neither do I. So such generalizations about what is and is not appropriate in regards to expressions of remorse is being insensitive to those with such developmental disorders. People are different. We don't have the full story, let's not pretend we do.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Again - why does his second chance include a possible NHL career?
It is an incredible fortunate and small group of people that even have a remote chance of that. I'm comfortable saying that based on his behavior and how he treated someone - that opportunity is gone for him.
Doesn't mean his life is over. 99.9999999% of us will never have an NHL career.
Why does he get that opportunity? Eff him.

Who died and made you arbiter of what careers are appropriate for juvenile offenders?

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Thanks for insulting my parental skills based on a post.

I have a daughter with down syndrome. She was bullied growing up. When I witnessed it my first instinct was violence. But I didn't go with my first instinct. My second instinct was to take the bully aside and have a private conversation with them. I explained to them that while my daughter didn't act like the other kids, she still felt the same when bullied. I'd then ask the bully what they would think if my daughter was their sister and they saw someone else bullying them. Without fail they'd say they wouldn't like it. Then I'd tell them I don't like it. And neither does she. Then I'd ask if it will stop. Without fail, they'd say yes. Even if they weren't sure if they meant it. Then I'd tell them I was going to hold them to it. And they would. Even the kids I was certain would reoffend. At least with my daughter, they didn't.



You know what kind of people have trouble showing remorse? People on the autism spectrum. How do you know this young man isn't on the spectrum? You don't. And neither do I. So such generalizations about what is and is not appropriate in regards to expressions of remorse is being insensitive to those with such developmental disorders. People are different. We don't have the full story, let's not pretend we do.

No intention to insult my deepest apologies! Sometimes I don't get my thoughts out very well.

And you are right, about not having the full story! I was just sharing based on my own experience. I agree with what you are saying.

I worked with various agency's in support of people with disabilities for about 15 years as well as people with autism and down syndrome! Thanks for sharing your perspective as a parent!