The Brain Drain Thread

[Lubicon]

I moved to Calgary in my late 20's (in my 50's now ). I work in O&G so my job does not exist outside of Calgary unless I go international. Although there is no technical reason I could not work remotely my employer does not believe in this and frankly there is value in meeting our clients face to face so it would be difficult to be 100% remote anyhow. So that means I'm pretty much tied to Calgary unless my job disappears.

Longer term we were hoping to retire to the Kootenays but by the time that happens I'm sure housing prices will be higher than here which will make it tough.

Calgary is a great city but too expensive to retire in. Seems like there is a 'Calgary premium' on almost everything.

My kids are in university. Honestly I do not see a future for them in Calgary and probably not in Alberta given the economy and also their interests. They feel the same way.

[Ozy_Flame]

To that end, I think remote working is going to be the revival of many small towns. Being able to do your job - basically anywhere as long as it can be done online - will likely mean that Canada's small towns can sustain their longevity and appeal. And with COVID demonstrating the need for personal space and being around less crowds, I can see this being a small form of "renaissance". That said, towns outside of major urban areas may benefit the most because of proximity and affordability. The GTA - and towns around it - would be a good example.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by you&me

*raises hand*

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

To that end, I think remote working is going to be the revival of many small towns. Being able to do your job - basically anywhere as long as it can be done online - will likely mean that Canada's small towns can sustain their longevity and appeal. And with COVID demonstrating the need for personal space and being around less crowds, I can see this being a small form of "renaissance". That said, towns outside of major urban areas may benefit the most because of proximity and affordability. The GTA - and towns around it - would be a good example.

To support this high speed internet needs to be a priority. The US is failing at this so provides Canada with an opportunity to be a leader in small town remote work.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

That's fantastic - thank you!

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

To that end, I think remote working is going to be the revival of many small towns. Being able to do your job - basically anywhere as long as it can be done online - will likely mean that Canada's small towns can sustain their longevity and appeal. And with COVID demonstrating the need for personal space and being around less crowds, I can see this being a small form of "renaissance". That said, towns outside of major urban areas may benefit the most because of proximity and affordability. The GTA - and towns around it - would be a good example.

The Canmore real estate market has been doing well, and you have to think that this is why. People would love to live there, but the issue is always about what kind of livelihood you would have. With companies being more accepting in facilitating work from home, it bodes well for some of these towns/cities.

For me, Calgary makes me happy for the most part. I wouldn't move based on politics because that seems too short-term for me to make a major commitment based on 4-5 year problems. But Calgary is also home to some of my extended family, friends and a lot of recreation that I really enjoy. When I see things about people commuting for 90 minutes or whatever, I just think that's too much for me personally. I think that in terms of work/life balance there is a lot to be loved here. My industry starts earlier in the day and finishes earlier as a result (for the most part), and that's down to timezone...so I could see moving West, but moving East would be harder for me.

The one city that I come back to as another place I could live and probably love is London (UK, not the lame Ontario one!). I love everything about that city, I think. It's got fantastic energy, lots of great things to do and I would love to be able to hop on a cheap flight to all kinds of interesting places for a weekend.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Slava

For me, Calgary makes me happy for the most part. I wouldn't move based on politics because that seems too short-term for me to make a major commitment based on 4-5 year problems.

I have a bridge to sell you that will last 40-50 years

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I have a bridge to sell you that will last 40-50 years

yeah, but really, that's not the norm. Like I know people in the US who were like "if Trump gets elected, I'm out!" (and they say the same thing now). But if you hated the US under Obama, you had to wait 8 years....and Trump 4 so far, maybe another 4. But if you have a family and uproot everything based on these political issues alone, it seems pretty short-sighted to me. Just my opinion...but if I was that upset with how things were going, I'd get more involved and try to change things for the better before I made an enormous move like that.

Of course, it depends on what kind of ties you have to the city/province/country. For me, I have a family, extended family and friends, my business and other ties. It adds up to a situation that would be really hard for me to drop it all, so politics wouldn't likely be enough.

[Ozy_Flame]

Slava, the joke is that it IS the norm in Alberta.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Slava

yeah, but really, that's not the norm. Like I know people in the US who were like "if Trump gets elected, I'm out!" (and they say the same thing now). But if you hated the US under Obama, you had to wait 8 years....and Trump 4 so far, maybe another 4. But if you have a family and uproot everything based on these political issues alone, it seems pretty short-sighted to me. Just my opinion...but if I was that upset with how things were going, I'd get more involved and try to change things for the better before I made an enormous move like that.

Of course, it depends on what kind of ties you have to the city/province/country. For me, I have a family, extended family and friends, my business and other ties. It adds up to a situation that would be really hard for me to drop it all, so politics wouldn't likely be enough.

Furthermore, Political moves have a tendency to take years to actually enact and can be reversed.

I would put a $1/L tax on fuel that would take effect in 2073.

Lets weed out the people who would, without conscience, sell out their children and grandchildren in exchange for preferential treatment right now.

If we're going to do this lets quit playing around, lets get to it!

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

To that end, I think remote working is going to be the revival of many small towns. Being able to do your job - basically anywhere as long as it can be done online - will likely mean that Canada's small towns can sustain their longevity and appeal. And with COVID demonstrating the need for personal space and being around less crowds, I can see this being a small form of "renaissance". That said, towns outside of major urban areas may benefit the most because of proximity and affordability. The GTA - and towns around it - would be a good example.

If you can do the work from small town Canada, you can do the work from India as well. The remote work will not be a long term trend. Post covid customer facing roles will go back to customer facing and the remote jobs will be off shored or automated.

Just wanted to note that before everyone buys a house in Nelson.

[Muta]

I love Calgary, but definitely open to moving. I lived in downtown Toronto for a year when I was younger and it was a blast. Loved every minute of it (except for the August heat). I'm starting to lean towards moving to Vancouver (La Flames Fan, wassup brother!) or even a smaller place like White Rock as it's the next city on my list. Thankfully, I'm in an industry / field that isn't Alberta-dependent - although the adjustment of salary would still give me some anxiety outside of Alberta.

My ultimate goal is to permanently move down to San Diego, but for now, Canada will have to do.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

If you can do the work from small town Canada, you can do the work from India as well. The remote work will not be a long term trend. Post covid customer facing roles will go back to customer facing and the remote jobs will be off shored or automated.

Just wanted to note that before everyone buys a house in Nelson.

Sorry, that's just not true. Not every role can be automated. I work in tech and outsourcing to India/other side of the world has often times resulted in complete and utter disaster. It's good for repeatable, technical roles, but nothing like business engagement, change management, and iterative design that can read between the lines.

Remote work is an expectation, not a fad. And it was going that way well before COVID. Companies like Microsoft, Oracle and Cisco don't invest huge amounts of money in remote and collaborative technology for end-users so they can go back to the office.

It is not - without question - all or nothing.

[Flamenspiel]

^^i never said it was good, but it can be good and that’s how big corporations do it, including the ones you list. collaborative technology can be applied all over the world, not just small town Canada or India.

There is no geographic exclusivity for remote work, there are smart people all over the world and many who work at a fraction of local wages.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

With Australia you're trading extreme cold for extreme heat, a conservative government on par with the UCP for incompetent ####ery, internet and phone plans that makes Robellus look competitive, and wildlife that wants to kill you. I think the only places that would make me pull the plug on Canada as a whole would be New Zealand and maybe Singapore

The weather depends on which part of the country. I specified Melbourne. Their hottest month is February, with an average high of 27 C. That's hot, but not outrageous.

New Zealand would be a possibility as well, although realistically I quite like it in Calgary and will probably stay. Mainly just commenting that if you're going to the hassle of moving the BC interior isn't the only option...

[RoadGame]

Originally Posted by Locke

Furthermore, Political moves have a tendency to take years to actually enact and can be reversed.

Do you think Alberta's penchant for electing political dynasties is a thing of the past?

I'll say this of Jason Kenney, he doesn't let the grass grow under his feet.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by RoadGame

Do you think Alberta's penchant for electing political dynasties is a thing of the past?

I'll say this of Jason Kenney, he doesn't let the grass grow under his feet.

Political Dynasties is one thing, but Political actions can be reversed.

[Swift]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

If you can do the work from small town Canada, you can do the work from India as well. The remote work will not be a long term trend. Post covid customer facing roles will go back to customer facing and the remote jobs will be off shored or automated.

Just wanted to note that before everyone buys a house in Nelson.

Funny you mentioned that as the one person in our company who has been allowed to work remotely full time is actually someone who moved from Ontario to Nelson! The company had actually started piloting full time work from home prior to the lockdown, although you still had to be within driving distance from a regional office.


Anyway, I've been entertaining the idea for a couple of years (unrelated to politics) of moving out east as we have an office in Moncton. Now Moncton itself seems kind of dull/rundown, but I like the idea of living in a house looking out at the sea about 30-60 mins drive away.



Anyone have any thoughts on living in that region (Moncton/PEI/Amherst, NS) that are based on actual experience out there? I've only visited once many years ago, but our next trip will probably be out that way as my wife has never been.

[La Flames Fan]

Originally Posted by Muta

I love Calgary, but definitely open to moving. I lived in downtown Toronto for a year when I was younger and it was a blast. Loved every minute of it (except for the August heat). I'm starting to lean towards moving to Vancouver (La Flames Fan, wassup brother!) or even a smaller place like White Rock as it's the next city on my list. Thankfully, I'm in an industry / field that isn't Alberta-dependent - although the adjustment of salary would still give me some anxiety outside of Alberta.

My ultimate goal is to permanently move down to San Diego, but for now, Canada will have to do.

I smell trouble.

[edslunch]

I love the neighbourhoods in the original city of Toronto - miss living in the Beach and on Avenue road. The burbs are hell on earth IMO - not enough amenities and brutal traffic. I hate the humidity which is one big reason not to go back. Between that and the grey, rainy winters in BC that make me almost suicidal, Calgary actually has the 'best' weather for me aside as odd as that sounds. Really, though, every place has 3 months you don't want to be there so there are more options for retirement.