The Brain Drain Thread

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by troutman

I lived in Penticton for three years in the 90s. I had to drive to Kelowna all of the time for Court, in all seasons. Very rarely is snow a problem on Hwy 97. I never found it to be dangerous. There are some annoying single lane stretches, but traffic is not bad in the winter. I think that drive is one of the most scenic drives in all of Canada. I could usually get to Kelowna in 45 minutes, and Vancouver in 4 hours.

Penticton is a tourist town, and had many more fine restaurants for a town of 30,000 than you would expect. I still go back once or twice a year, and the explosion of new wineries with great restaurants attached is amazing. From Naramata to OK Falls, there is lots to try.

In the winter, it was kind of a ghost town, and overcast much of the time. Sometimes in the summer it was too damn hot. Overall, I think it was a great place to live, and I would consider retiring there or having a summer home there.

The problem with that stretch is that they haven’t upgraded it to match the traffic levels from the 90s, which are much, much higher now.

I should have said winter conditions, not necessarily just snow.

I know several people that have driven it almost daily for the last 10 years. It’s an awful stretch of road right now when the weather is ugly.

I like Penticton. But it’s not Kelowna. This is not really a debate. It’s just the reality of living in a place 1/3 the size.


I don’t know why anyone feels the need to defend Penticton here. I’m just pointing out that moving from Calgary at 1.1m people to a small city of 50k people is going to be a huge change. Some good, some bad.

All of a sudden it turned into some weird battle of defending cities. Who cares? Small cities are a different life than big cities. This is news to people and it offends them now?

Never knew it’d be such a touchy subject to make a simple post pointing out that comparing Calgary, Vernon, Kelowna, Penticton and Salmon arm might need some context on city size. I never meant to rile anyone up, just trying to help the poster who said maybe he’d like to move to the interior.

We’re also talking about living here, not visiting from time to time or vacationing. Those are totally different topics that are pretty hard to comment on if you don’t actually live here now.

As a city dweller, Kelowna is already too small for me. Penticton would be way too small. Having fewer restaurants, entertainment options, shopping options etc are reality. Not a knock on the cities, it’s reality.

[Bonded]

For my wife and myself it is probably stay in Calgary or leave the country all together. If housing crashed in Vancouver or Toronto then we would consider but that probably means no jobs.

I have lived in a lot of places in the US but for the most part that cities that are a good mix of jobs and affordability aren't that much better than Calgary.

If I was rich, I would probably leave Calgary but I am not and there isn't anywhere else that has the mix of things to do, affordability, and so far jobs that fits in Canada.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by peter12

My partner and I have started looking outside of Vancouver for opportunities for awhile. Calgary always comes up, but it would be hard for her to work there, plus the weather.

Don't kid yourself. If your reference is Vancouver and you are worried about Calgary being cold, the reality is that the weather here is twice as bad as you are probably imagining. It's as said previously exactly what you expect on living at the far northern reaches of civilization. When the weather is nice there's few better places in Canada but unfortunately the weather is nice less 1/4 of the year. Heck right now if you got off a plane you could be excused for thinking it was February 1st here. Inches of snow and haven't been above freezing for days.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Don't kid yourself. If your reference is Vancouver and you are worried about Calgary being cold, the reality is that the weather here is twice as bad as you are probably imagining. It's as said previously exactly what you expect on living at the far northern reaches of civilization. When the weather is nice there's few better places in Canada but unfortunately the weather is nice less 1/4 of the year. Heck right now if you got off a plane you could be excused for thinking it was February 1st here. Inches of snow and haven't been above freezing for days.

Oh yeah, I know. I grew up in Calgary and lived there until I was 25. I can't get over how easy life is in Vancouver where I really only have to worry about weather maybe 3-10 days a year.

[The Yen Man]

I like the feel of Penticton, everyone's pretty friendly there. It's definitely a town of older, retired people. It kind of reminds me of my home town Medicine Hat. They like to say in the Hat that most of the people living there are either "newly wed or nearly dead". And it kind of feels true for Penticton too.

I'd have no issues retiring there. Nice lake, lots of wineries, quiet town. I do hear there's some issues with local gangs there, but not sure how serious it is.

[Shin Pad]

Originally Posted by peter12

Oh yeah, I know. I grew up in Calgary and lived there until I was 25. I can't get over how easy life is in Vancouver where I really only have to worry about weather maybe 3-10 days a year.

I'm a native Vancouverite but have lived out here in Alberta longer than I lived in Van. It depends on what you call bad weather - I hate the depressing grey rainy days in Vancouver. I would much rather put up with the cold, sunny days here in Alberta. That's just my 2 cents worth.

[starseed]

I think that speaks to how numb you get to the weather living out there. I was surprised that is has snowed already in Calgary. +20 and sunny out here, with leaves still on the trees for the most part. But you don't get the Dar Maqbools winning bets with environment Canada at noon on a January day that the temperature will go from -20 to +15 by the 11pm news.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[GGG]

I am always surprised at the number of people who hate winter yet don’t move. The weather / outdoor recreation is probably number 3 on my list of things to consider where to live

1) Is it Safe
2) economic opportunity
3) weather / outdoor opportunity
4) city amenities Food / Entertainment
5) Extended Family

Really the issue is probably that most people don’t choose where to live. They either live where they were born or where they got their job out of university. It is probably the third biggest choice you make in your life behind whether you have kids and who you choose to Marry/live with.

I happily chose Calgary, I think people who choose to live elsewhere based on their circumstances are making good choices. It just frustrates me that people complain about something in their control and choose to do nothing about it or continue to complain about something they can’t control after having chosen to accept that circumstance.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Jbo

I love this city and this province. I've travelled all over the world, and this has always felt like home.

Unfortunately, it feels like many people would rather bolt, then work to get this province back to where we know it is capable of. I'm not talking about waiting for a turn in commodity prices and a return to the "Boom" times either.

We continue to have the youngest demographics in the country, are well educated, and Calgary is still considered one of the most livable cities in the world. I also truly believe we have the hardest working population in the country. (Roll up the sleeves types). I've weighed living in Victoria, Kelowna, Vancouver and TO and in all cases after extensive research have stayed put.

I do hate the whiplash between NDP and UCP. Would love to see a government right in between both parties.

I'm not discouraging anyone from moving, times are tough and if you need work, you have to do what you need to. Just hate to see this city where it is today.

This is where I'm at too. I've lived here since 2006 after spending 21 years in Winnipeg, and I'm hoping that this term of the UCP is our 'Trump administration' moment, and that voters wake up in the next provincial election and realize that our decisions have consequences.

We have so much potential but right now it's getting beat out of us and it's depressing because I do love this place. My wife is from here, her parents are both here. Mine are in Winnipeg and I'm sorry but I am not moving back there. If Calgary became economically unfeasible for us, Vancouver or Toronto would probably be landing spots, or Seattle/Bellevue if the US stops imploding. But I really, really wouldn't want to leave.

[CliffFletcher]

There’s a difference between complaining about the climate of a city and complaining about particular weather events.

I’m down with the climate in this city and don’t mind shovelling snow and wearing a winter coat five months of the year. But a dump like this two weeks before Halloween is ####ing bull####.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

This is where I'm at too. I've lived here since 2006 after spending 21 years in Winnipeg, and I'm hoping that this term of the UCP is our 'Trump administration' moment, and that voters wake up in the next provincial election and realize that our decisions have consequences.

We have so much potential but right now it's getting beat out of us and it's depressing because I do love this place. My wife is from here, her parents are both here. Mine are in Winnipeg and I'm sorry but I am not moving back there. If Calgary became economically unfeasible for us, Vancouver or Toronto would probably be landing spots, or Seattle/Bellevue if the US stops imploding. But I really, really wouldn't want to leave.

We as voters need to be provided a viable alternative though.

I am not a 'Team Player' and my vote will go to whom I deem most worthy and in line with my beliefs on the overall direction this Province should go in, regardless of my self-interest.

You know who takes care of my Self-Interest? I do. The Government should be taking care of the 'Good of the Many.'

At this point it'll be a cold day in Hell before I consciously decide to re-elect Kenney...but someone has to provide me with a viable alternative.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by GGG

I happily chose Calgary, I think people who choose to live elsewhere based on their circumstances are making good choices. It just frustrates me that people complain about something in their control and choose to do nothing about it or continue to complain about something they can’t control after having chosen to accept that circumstance.

Choosing where to live is not something that a lot of people have in their control. I'd happily move to Vancouver or Toronto, but I don't have a million dollars on hand to buy a house. I've also looked at options abroad, but unless you're skilled in an area of high demand trying to get a work visa can be impossible

[topfiverecords]

We seriously considered relocating last year.

We did a very lengthy evaluation and spreadsheet ranking of a hundred various facets of Victoria, Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, and Halifax. My wife grew up in Toronto and her friends and family are still there. I grew up in a city of 150k and can't ever go back to a small city.

Knowing the hospitals in each city that hold my wife's specialty I was able to narrow in on a living location near each one that provided walkable inner city amenities, decent biking and transit commute, good elementary school in close proximity, access to parks/recreation/water/nature, and a myriad of other things. Then I was able to map out what living conditions and daily life would be like on a granular level in each city to meet comparable to our Calgary life.

In the end we decided inner city Calgary provides everything we need except for family close by and Vancouver Island weather. Surprisingly, other cities fall short on many things very quickly.

[RoadGame]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I never meant to rile anyone up, just trying to help the poster who said maybe he’d like to move to the interior.

We’re also talking about living here, not visiting from time to time or vacationing.

It has been an interesting discussion to follow particularly from the lens of someone who's day to day basically revolves around the workplace and kids. I live in Calgary but if amenities started disappearing I'd basically only notice by the time you got to the zoo, playgrounds, the grocery store and the hardware store. I'm in that grindy phase of life that inspired "Frank the Tank", minus the alcoholism.

[RoadGame]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

We seriously considered relocating last year.

We did a very lengthy evaluation and spreadsheet ranking of a hundred various facets of Victoria, Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, and Halifax. My wife grew up in Toronto and her friends and family are still there. I grew up in a city of 150k and can't ever go back to a small city.

Knowing the hospitals in each city that hold my wife's specialty I was able to narrow in on a living location near each one that provided walkable inner city amenities, decent biking and transit commute, good elementary school in close proximity, access to parks/recreation/water/nature, and a myriad of other things. Then I was able to map out what living conditions and daily life would be like on a granular level in each city to meet comparable to our Calgary life.

In the end we decided inner city Calgary provides everything we need except for family close by and Vancouver Island weather. Surprisingly, other cities fall short on many things very quickly.

I think there may actually be a viable business model for a web-based tool to help people (especially doctors) inform a rational, fact-based economic evaluation of their options. I'm kind of surprised how inaccessible the relevant information is and how badly the trickle of readily available information is misconstrued in public discourse. /thinking out loud

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Choosing where to live is not something that a lot of people have in their control. I'd happily move to Vancouver or Toronto, but I don't have a million dollars on hand to buy a house. I've also looked at options abroad, but unless you're skilled in an area of high demand trying to get a work visa can be impossible

There are definitely people for whom it's not an option, but for a lot of people I think it's a matter of difficulty with the give and take. The sacrifices that would be required if you can't find the ideal work, lose your social group, end up far from family etc. need to be balanced against the other things that are offered. Some moves just won't work, but there are few that won't work if it offers things you care about and you're willing to make some sacrifices and adjust elements of your life to make it work. Offered a prospect that involves certain sacrifices and uncertain returns, most people aren't interested. Similar sort of barrier that exists to entrepreneurship. It's an understandably hard choice to make.

The risk of change gets more tolerable to most when the returns for continuing to do the same start looking worse though, which sounds like where some people in Calgary are at now.

I think JD expressed it pretty well earlier.

Every person is a little different though. I commend those of you who are willing to stay and be the change you want to see, but I also can't blame those who'd rather find a better situation for themselves and their families.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by RoadGame

I think there may actually be a viable business model for a web-based tool to help people (especially doctors) inform a rational, fact-based economic evaluation of their options. I'm kind of surprised how inaccessible the relevant information is and how badly the trickle of readily available information is misconstrued in public discourse. /thinking out loud

On that note if anyone wants a spreadsheet that covers demographics, weather, weather, more weather, taxes, environment/pollution, crime, economic, and domestic and international non-stop flight connections, for those cities I can share it.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by RoadGame

I think there may actually be a viable business model for a web-based tool to help people (especially doctors) inform a rational, fact-based economic evaluation of their options. I'm kind of surprised how inaccessible the relevant information is and how badly the trickle of readily available information is misconstrued in public discourse. /thinking out loud

There is for living around the GTA - I'll try and find it, it was released earlier this year as a response to being priced out of the Toronto area.

Got it: https://ninetyminutesfrom.com/

It's worth exploring this site to see what's available around the GTA. I really like the Data section for getting quick information on diversity, transportation, politics, etc.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

But they’re ahead of China, so there’s that I guess.

You’re talking out of your ass and it’s showing. But go on, I’m enjoying it.

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I never meant to rile anyone up

[you&me]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

On that note if anyone wants a spreadsheet that covers demographics, weather, weather, more weather, taxes, environment/pollution, crime, economic, and domestic and international non-stop flight connections, for those cities I can share it.

*raises hand*