2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Tkachuk - Monahan - Mangiapane would be a better first line than the "league figured out" Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm. Let Gaudreau learn to adapt to Backlund's North/South game, instead of relying on Monahan's shot. If you don't think that he can do that, and feast on second line matchups, then for the love of Gawdin, just trade Johnny.

Seems like there is no good market for Johnny right now. We definitely shouldn't trade him to trade him.

If T-B-M was a better first line, then they would be attracting the better defensive matchups and Gaudreau would be getting the left overs by that virtue. They only saw greater success because they were the ones getting the easier defensive matchups.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I think that Backlunds best days as a 2nd C are over, and that Mangiapane has yet to prove that he is an everyday top 6 winger in the NHL.

Improving the second lines scoring potential would help the first line find space. As it stands now teams can load up against the top line, knowing that no other line poses a real offensive threat.

Um what are you talking about.

Tkachuk - Backlund - Mangiapane as a line were responsible for 3.76 goals per sixty 5v5 minutes in a shade over 351 minutes together.

That's not weak second line production.
That's elite first line production.

To put that into perspective, here's a list of all forwards who had an on-ice production of 3.75 goals or greater last season over 600+ minutes of icetime:

Brayden Point
Artemi Panarin
Brian Rust (mostly played with Sid and Malkin)
Elias Pettersson
Brendan Gallagher
Evgeni Malkin
Nathan MacKinnon
Steven Stamkos
Jonathan Huberdeau
Patrice Bergeron

That's only ten forwards in the entire NHL.

That's not even mentioning that Tkachuk - Backlund - Mangiapane were elite in terms of possession, or that they were matched up to other teams' top lines.

Tkachuk - Backlund - Mangiapane isn't a weak second line. It's a strong first line, with two of the players' not showing up on boxscore stats as often simply because they don't play on this team's first PP unit (though maybe they should).

[MacFlame]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I think that Backlunds best days as a 2nd C are over, and that Mangiapane has yet to prove that he is an everyday top 6 winger in the NHL.

Improving the second lines scoring potential would help the first line find space. As it stands now teams can load up against the top line, knowing that no other line poses a real offensive threat.

See, I look at it the other way. You supplant Gaudreau or Monahan on the first line which pushes one of them down to the second line and so and so on.

Based on the last season and a half or so,leaving both Gaudreau and Monahan on the first line to start next year would be a colossal failure by Treliving in my opinion.

[Gaudreau is a Ninja]

Nm

[Roof-Daddy]

Tampa Bay has $2.9 million cap space and they need to sign Cirelli, Cernak and Sergachev. Probably what...$10-15 million total for all three to be signed?

Once those three are signed, they would still only have 12 forwards, 6 defense and 2 goalies, so still 2-3 skaters need to be added.

I wonder if they'd retain 50% on Tyler Johnson? 4 years of $2.5 million cap hit would be better than 8 years of $2.7 to $1.4 million cap hit for a buy out.

I would take TJ at $2.5 million if the cost was just a late pick or something. Plays all three forward positions, has a right shot and IMO he will see his production go back up with more ice time and an expanded role.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Tampa Bay has $2.9 million cap space and they need to sign Cirelli, Cernak and Sergachev. Probably what...$10-15 million total for all three to be signed?

Once those three are signed, they would still only have 12 forwards, 6 defense and 2 goalies, so still 2-3 skaters need to be added.

I wonder if they'd retain 50% on Tyler Johnson? 4 years of $2.5 million cap hit would be better than 8 years of $2.7 to $1.4 million cap hit for a buy out.

I would take TJ at $2.5 million if the cost was just a late pick or something. Plays all three forward positions, has a right shot and IMO he will see his production go back up with more ice time and an expanded role.

Have to remember Johnson also has a full-NTC.

Tampa Bay is in an extraordinarily difficult cap position. I just don’t see how they get out of it without incurring a decent amount of damage - it could very well cost them one of their RFAs and a high quality player going out the door with no return.

The cost of winning is real, but well worth it.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Tkachuk - Backlund - Mangiapane isn't a weak second line. It's a strong first line, with two of the players' not showing up on boxscore stats as often simply because they don't play on this team's first PP unit (though maybe they should).

And this is why the stats crowd loses so much traction.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by New Era

And this is why the stats crowd loses so much traction.

Because stating that a line has scored a ton of goals since being assembled is just crazy talk because it doesn't fit with your gut feeling

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by New Era

And this is why the stats crowd loses so much traction.

Why, because you can't understand simple numbers that pretty much track exactly with a lot of peoples eye tests?

Stat's deniers and flat earthers are a perfect circle on a venn diagram.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Tampa Bay has $2.9 million cap space and they need to sign Cirelli, Cernak and Sergachev. Probably what...$10-15 million total for all three to be signed?

Once those three are signed, they would still only have 12 forwards, 6 defense and 2 goalies, so still 2-3 skaters need to be added.

I wonder if they'd retain 50% on Tyler Johnson? 4 years of $2.5 million cap hit would be better than 8 years of $2.7 to $1.4 million cap hit for a buy out.

I would take TJ at $2.5 million if the cost was just a late pick or something. Plays all three forward positions, has a right shot and IMO he will see his production go back up with more ice time and an expanded role.

Cap space is at such a premium, I am guessing that if Tampa retained 50%, the acquisition costs would be higher than a late pick. But I agree with what you are saying.

[flames_fan_down_under]

I’m confused, are you comparing an entire lines offensive output vs the offensive output of single players?

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by New Era

And this is why the stats crowd loses so much traction.

I think Tkachuk is an elite 1st line forward and Backlund and Mangiapane just play smart, mistake-free hockey

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

I’m confused, are you comparing an entire lines offensive output vs the offensive output of single players?

No.

On-ice production refers to goals scored when a player or line is on the ice. If, for instance, Chris Tanev is on the ice and the line he's out there with scores a goal, that is part of his on-ice production. It's also a part of that line's on-ice production. They were all on the ice when the goal was scored.

So when those ten players noted above were on the ice, their 5 man units were the only ones to produce at the same clip as Tkachuk-Backlund-Mangiapane+2 defensemen.

Hope that helped clarify.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Who is projecting Pelletier to be in the lineup? Or even Yelesin for that matter?

Pelletier definitely no.

Yelesin should be considered for the third pairing though. Played a year in the AHL now, had a cup of coffee in the NHL, and has played years in the KHL. He's an older prospect.

It's almost sink or swim time for Yelesin. Plus with a need there.

I think the third pairing should be Valimaki and Kylington with Yelesin as the 7th defenseman and Mackey seasoning in the AHL.

[CanucksWorstNightmare]

Montreal is pretty deep on RW after adding Josh Anderson & Tyler Toffoli , they also have Joel Armia. I wonder if a Gallagher for Gaudreau swap would work out for both teams? Would other pieces have to be added? Gallagher is 28 years old and from Alberta and Johnny just turned 27. Could probably get draft picks and prospects added on top of Gallagher coming our way.

[AC]

Oh my god. That would be a literal nightmare.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by CanucksWorstNightmare

Montreal is pretty deep on RW after adding Josh Anderson & Tyler Toffoli , they also have Joel Armia. I wonder if a Gallagher for Gaudreau swap would work out for both teams? Would other pieces have to be added? Gallagher is 28 years old and from Alberta and Johnny just turned 27. Could probably get draft picks and prospects added on top of Gallagher coming our way.

I want you to go to your corner and think about what you just said.

[Wastedyouth]

We are only a couple years removed from people saying that you could never win with an Ovechkin on your team.

Or you could never win with a Stamkos on your team.

Etc. etc. etc.

Trading a star player for underperforming in small sample sizes is so immensely silly. You build around star players, you don't trade them and try to replace them with lottery tickets and significantly worse players.

That's how you don't even get to the playoffs again for a decade. Just ask Edmonton.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Because stating that a line has scored a ton of goals since being assembled is just crazy talk because it doesn't fit with your gut feeling

No, its crazy talk when you throw out your list and suggest Backlund and Mangipane are right at home on that list. I mean, seriously, outside of two outliers, these are some of the best players in the game today.

Brayden Point
Artemi Panarin
Brian Rust (halo effect from playing with Sid and Malkin)
Elias Pettersson
Brendan Gallagher (outlier)
Evgeni Malkin
Nathan MacKinnon
Steven Stamkos
Jonathan Huberdeau
Patrice Bergeron

Yeah, I remember when the advanced stats said Ty Conklin was better than Martin Brodeur too.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by New Era

No, its crazy talk when you throw out your list and suggest Backlund and Mangipane are right at home on that list. I mean, seriously, outside of two outliers, these are some of the best players in the game today.

Brayden Point
Artemi Panarin
Brian Rust (halo effect from playing with Sid and Malkin)
Elias Pettersson
Brendan Gallagher (outlier)
Evgeni Malkin
Nathan MacKinnon
Steven Stamkos
Jonathan Huberdeau
Patrice Bergeron

Yeah, I remember when the advanced stats said Ty Conklin was better than Martin Brodeur too.

Oh? Which ones? Seems like you enjoy being hyperbolic this because you don't want to put in the time to figure it out.