"An Inconvenient Truth": Al Gore, Environmentalists and the State of the Planet

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

New Storm on Jupiter Hints at Climate Change

MIT Researcher Finds Evidence of Global Warming on Neptune's Largest Moon

Mars is Warming, NASA Scientists Report

Global Warming on Pluto Puzzles Scientists

Venus - Global Warming on Other Planets

Again, sources not completely verified.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan in West Van

I don't want to get banned...

Ah! It's sucking me in!

I'm outta here!

This is the second time you have done this.....if you have nothing to contribute....butt out.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Teh_Bandwagoner

New Storm on Jupiter Hints at Climate Change

MIT Researcher Finds Evidence of Global Warming on Neptune's Largest Moon

Mars is Warming, NASA Scientists Report

Global Warming on Pluto Puzzles Scientists

Venus - Global Warming on Other Planets

Again, sources not completely verified.

They better stop buying SUV's over there!!!

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Many people have also come in here claiming the contrary, and no one has addressed the above graph or any points raised here.

If you're looking for a debate on the science, my guess is you'll be disappointed. Most people who deny global warming (or who deny that humans are at least substantially the cause) are interested in a kind of politics of negation. They just raise objections when they don't like what the evidence says. The science isn't conclusive. The earth is actually cooling. Other planets are warming. The list of objections goes on, and debunking each of them in turn gets a little exhausting.

I for one think that a debate involving graphs and the presentation of data, etc. would be really interesting. I wouldn't be qualified to contribute very much to it, but I would find it illuminating to read. It doesn't seem like the "global warming skeptics" are particularly interested in doing real science--either around here or out in the world.

Interestingly, the American Enterprise Institute has offered a "bounty" of 10,000 dollars for anyone who can "debunk" the recent report on climate change. That isn't how science is done, and it's frankly a despicable attempt at influence-peddling. These are the kinds of organizations that give rise to your so-called "global-warming skeptics" who are out there trying to confuse the issue. There's your conspiracy, Looger--and it wasn't even very hard to find. Also, the motives question's a bit easier to answer.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/frontpage/...004399,00.html

[Flames Fan in West Van]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

This is the second time you have done this.....if you have nothing to contribute....butt out.

I am so close to responding to this...

so close...

[Hakan]

wow 2002 just called and wants its debates back

In case you haven't heard all of the mainstream political opponents are lining up in acknowledgement of anthropogenic climate change. The scientific writing is on the wall. There are literally zero scientific studies that show any indication that this is all just a natural occurance. Find me an article in a peer reviewed journal published in the last two years that debunks human caused global warming.

I challenge you.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Looger

that's how many times, at least two or three, that you've brought up this 'illuminati', and i have yet to mention 'them' in one single post.

oops, well, one now!

interesting, eh...?

A rose by any other name is still a rose.

Some giant conspiracy theory, whatever you would like to refer it as, is still a giant conspiracy theory.

Period.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Hakan

wow 2002 just called and wants its debates back

In case you haven't heard all of the mainstream political opponents are lining up in acknowledgement of anthropogenic climate change. The scientific writing is on the wall. There are literally zero scientific studies that show any indication that this is all just a natural occurance. Find me an article in a peer reviewed journal published in the last two years that debunks human caused global warming.

I challenge you.

Humans are a part of it, no question....we are here after all.

Im curious however, what caused the previous cycles of warming that ended actual glacial periods.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Many people have also come in here claiming the contrary, and no one has addressed the above graph or any points raised here.

First of all there is not one freeze/thaw cycle in a given year. If Scientists
are still measuring each layer of Ice as one year they have a problem with their data. There is no way to tell how many layers represent one year because of changing weather from one year to another.

Secondly. Co2 emissions differ at different places on the planet, at different altitudes, and at different times a year. How do you fairly measure this factor? It is reasonable to conclude that there have been
more freeze/thaw cycles in the last few years because of the warming trend we see. Have there been an increase in things like smoke from forest fires that would have spiked the readings in these freeze/thaw cycles?

Lastly, Your chart only shows an increase in CO2 emissions. That doesn't tell us anything about the effect of these emissions. You can choose to claim it is the reason for the warming of the planet. That doesn't make it so. The sun appears to be having a drastic effect on the other planets at the moment. Maybe our increased CO2 emissions are shielding us in part from this.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

^^Er.... did you just suggest that greenhouse gases might be shielding us from the evil Sun?


Wow. I'm going to go ahead and guess that you're not a scientist.

[Hakan]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Humans are a part of it, no question....we are here after all.

Im curious however, what caused the previous cycles of warming that ended actual glacial periods.

Climatic dynamism over thousands of years. The climate changed slowly until it reaches new equilibria. Could be caused by a number of things. Rampant volcano activity like in the Deccan India. Over vegetation from a prolonged warm spell will suck out the CO2. There are many different natural feedback mechanisms that move the climate.

What is different about this case is that we have not seen as fast or as intense a change in climate in the timescale that we've been studying historical climate trends.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Hakan

What is different about this case is that we have not seen as fast or as intense a change in climate in the timescale that we've been studying historical climate trends.

Really?? Were you around then to verify this???

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Really?? Were you around then to verify this???

I think science has taken pretty good guesses at what the earth was like in previous years. Just because we can't travel back in time with a thermometer doesn't mean we don't have a clue what things were like. I'm sure there is a battery of tests used in places where they can sift layers of dirt/ice and measure levels of CO2 in the past, etc., etc. Pretty odd point to make... we've never seen a dinosaur walking around, but based on what we can figure out... they did.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Really?? Were you around then to verify this???

The great thing about science is that there are other ways of getting to the truth than actually 'having been there.' They collect data on historical climate changes in many different ways--and the trends shown by that data are alarming.

I for one find it interesting that "skeptics" of global warming have recently changed their tune. In the 90s they were claiming that there was no evidence of a warming trend. Now that the evidence of a global warming trend is clear and incontrovertible, these same people admit that global warming is happening, but claim there's no evidence that it's our fault.

I wonder why they changed their story?

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

I think science has taken pretty good guesses at what the earth was like in previous years. Just because we can't travel back in time with a thermometer doesn't mean we don't have a clue what things were like. I'm sure there is a battery of tests used in places where they can sift layers of dirt/ice and measure levels of CO2 in the past, etc., etc. Pretty odd point to make... we've never seen a dinosaur walking around, but based on what we can figure out... they did.

Finding a bone in the ground is much different than knowing what the tempature was and the increase and decreases of it.

All I am saying is we don't know....that is the truth....we really don't know what is causing the warming. Are humans contributing....probably....but as has been stated before.....this is not the first time the Earth has warmed and it will not be the last.

[FLAMESBURNOIL]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Finding a bone in the ground is much different than knowing what the tempature was and the increase and decreases of it.

All I am saying is we don't know....that is the truth....we really don't know what is causing the warming. Are humans contributing....probably....but as has been stated before.....this is not the first time the Earth has warmed and it will not be the last.

No doubt, people just love jumping on the popular bandwagon and dont take time to think it out and draw their own conclusions.

I am of the same opinion - global warming is a natural occurence, just like global cooling - do humans contribute? sure they do in more ways than just pumping more CO2 into the air.....are we being so arrogrant that we think we could have an effect on something, that we really know little about and what we do know we are really not sure if that is even right......

Do what you can to help - but please dont give me doomdays scenarios and have goverments overreact with stupid costly policies.

Its been proven many many times over history that the popular concensus in science is not always correct and has been proven wrong, what is also evident in history is that scientist that are against the popular oipinion are shunned big time....remeber the earth was flat..not to long ago..

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by FLAMESBURNOIL

Its been proven many many times over history that the popular concensus in science is not always correct and has been proven wrong, what is also evident in history is that scientist that are against the popular oipinion are shunned big time....remeber the earth was flat..not to long ago..

So correct me if I'm wrong, but your logic is basically--sometimes scientists are wrong, therefore my own unscientific opinion is just as valid as the opinion of scientists? Forgive me for finding that a little, well.... weird.

Furthermore to say, as you do that it has been "proven many many times" that the popular consensus in science is not always correct is a very broad statement. Would you care to provide us with an example or two? And it should be recent--since "science" in its current form didn't exist until at least the enlightenment. In that sense, it's accurate to say that no "scientist" has EVER thought the earth was flat.

[MarchHare]

this is not the first time the Earth has warmed and it will not be the last.

Wait, what?

Earlier you state:

Really?? Were you around then to verify this???

But now you're acknowledging that there were periods of warming before. How do you know that? Were you around then to verify it?

[Hakan]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Finding a bone in the ground is much different than knowing what the tempature was and the increase and decreases of it.

All I am saying is we don't know....that is the truth....we really don't know what is causing the warming. Are humans contributing....probably....but as has been stated before.....this is not the first time the Earth has warmed and it will not be the last.

I don't know why I bother sometimes.

If you aren't going to do due dilligence and actually read up on this stuff then I'm not going to treat you with any more respect than you deserve.

Your conclusion that we can't assess what historical climate trends were like because we weren't there is simply idiotic. Idiotic. You have no claim to make any factual assertions about climate change if that is the case and are merely trolling a thread spewing your own insolent ignorant garbage.

Do a rudimentary search to find out the myriad of different scientific methods at uncovering historical climate trends.

Fool.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Wait, what?

Earlier you state:



But now you're acknowledging that there were periods of warming before. How do you know that? Were you around then to verify it?

If you actually read what I was replying to.....you would realize that comment was about this....."What is different about this case is that we have not seen as fast or as intense a change in climate in the timescale that we've been studying historical climate trends."

I wasn't doubting the fact the Earth got warmer or cooler.