[News] Flames trade down (twice) to the 24th OA pick and select C Connor Zary

[Tibnadian_tpd]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Will any one of us be complaining if Zary is only just as good as Monahan or Tkachuk in tbe NHL? Those were top-ten picks; Zary was selected 24th.

And besides, where skating was once a terminal issue for young prospects it has more recently become among the more correctable shortcomings today, especially for centres.

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Totally agree with you on skating not being a terminal issue, and that warts should be expected at 24th overall, since it's not a top 10 surefire pick. I have to say though, IMHO, after watching a lot of Zary, he has almost no realistic chance to be anywhere near Monohan or Tkachuk offensively. I think what we have with him is a reliable two way centre with jam and compete, but maxes out as a 40-45 point player.

[cannon7]

Rico Fata was the best skater in his draft class, but had no hockey sense.

[AC]

It's funny seeing the talk of Zary's "poor skating" get repeated like a game of telephone.

What is poor about it? Worst I can find is a mention about his stride being a little hunched over, but that his speed is good, his edgework is good, and his acceleration is even a strength...

Criticizing skating without any specific context is weird.

Skating
Zary is a good skater, if somewhat unconventional. His stride can be a bit short and choppy at times, but this doesn’t seem to take away from his speed. He is still above average in terms of his top-end speed and he reaches that quickly with good acceleration. Zary also has very good agility and edgework. This helps him to get around defenders, both with and without the puck. Strong backwards skating also helps him to play a 200-foot game. Zary has a strong stride, that helps him to fight through checks and get to the dirty areas of the ice. It also helps him to work along the boards. If he can improve his lower body strength, this will improve even more going forward.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Rico Fata was the best skater in his draft class, but had no hockey sense.

Chucky and Monahan were not great skaters when drafted and they’re no better now. Skating can’t always be improved. Zary looks like he gets around just fine despite the choppy stride.

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Who else from the WHL is an NHL star other than Draisaitl or (laughs) RNH?

Ummm: Getzlaf, Benn, Barzal, Johansen, Neideraiter, Stone come to mind.

Getz is over this hill but was a star. Benn is over this hill but was kinda a star. He was good for a while. BarZal is a good all star one season anyway. Ryan johansen? Star laughs! Nino? Star?laughs Stone has made himeself into a very valuable player but I dont think he’s a star. My point stands the whl isn’t the best at producing star fwds. I was just cherry picking.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Ziggy Lidstrom

Benn is over this hill but was kinda a star.

Kinda? How many Art Ross trophy winners are "kinda" stars? Not to mention his multiple All-Star game and All-Star team appearances to go along with making a stacked team Canada Olympic team. Tough crowd if he doesn't fit the definition of star.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Kinda? How many Art Ross trophy winners are "kinda" stars? Not to mention his multiple All-Star game and All-Star team appearances to go along with making a stacked team Canada Olympic team. Tough crowd if he doesn't fit the definition of star.

I dunno, I'd be pretty pissed if Zary only won one Art Ross trophy.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Ziggy Lidstrom

Getz is over this hill but was a star. Benn is over this hill but was kinda a star. He was good for a while. BarZal is a good all star one season anyway. Ryan johansen? Star laughs! Nino? Star?laughs Stone has made himeself into a very valuable player but I dont think he’s a star. My point stands the whl isn’t the best at producing star fwds. I was just cherry picking.

Mark Stone isn’t a star? Don’t tell people here.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Just to really hammer it home, through the 2012-2013 season and 2017-2018 season (six seasons) here is a complete list of people who scored more points than the 'kinda' star Benn:

Crosby
Kane
Ovechkin

That's it. They're all kinda good at hockey too. Ironically, if he wasn't a Star he would have been a much bigger star.

[GreenLantern2814]

Jamie Benn and Mark Stone can be stars and the Dub can still not be great at producing star forwards.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Sure, but when you need to make absurd statements to emphasis a point, you lose the point you were making. Ziggy should have just conceded what everyone in the world would agree with; that Benn was a star.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by Ziggy Lidstrom

Getz is over this hill but was a star. Benn is over this hill but was kinda a star. He was good for a while. BarZal is a good all star one season anyway. Ryan johansen? Star laughs! Nino? Star?laughs Stone has made himeself into a very valuable player but I dont think he’s a star. My point stands the whl isn’t the best at producing star fwds. I was just cherry picking.

What the hell is this argument...dont draft the best players from the WHL, because you risk only getting partial stars like Benn, Stone, Barzal etc. I have no idea what your arguement is.

This guy will never be a star because the WHL doesn't produce stars? He could be a partial star though...

Dont pick the best player available because he plays in the WHL?

I seriously cannot follow your line of thinking here or your overall arguement in the context of using the 24th OA pick on a player from the WHL...for the record...I would be over the moon if Zary becomes a good 2C given his draft position. Anything better is gravy...

[Spinach]

Originally Posted by AC

It's funny seeing the talk of Zary's "poor skating" get repeated like a game of telephone.

What is poor about it? Worst I can find is a mention about his stride being a little hunched over, but that his speed is good, his edgework is good, and his acceleration is even a strength...

Criticizing skating without any specific context is weird.

It's the phenomenon described in Moneyball: scouts have preconceived notions of what a player should look like. Fans are no less prone to it (myself included: I didn't really want Zary because of his skating, but I've come around).

Hockey and baseball are conservative sports, and if guys don't fit a particular mold they'll get written off despite all evidence signalling their asset potential. Obviously that's changed a lot in the last few years, especially re. smaller players, but no doubt there's still a ways to go.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Jamie Benn and Mark Stone can be stars and the Dub can still not be great at producing star forwards.

It ebbs and flows, like was said, but I’m not sure you would look at the current NHL star forwards and say one junior league is heads and shoulders above others.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by AC

It's funny seeing the talk of Zary's "poor skating" get repeated like a game of telephone.

What is poor about it? Worst I can find is a mention about his stride being a little hunched over, but that his speed is good, his edgework is good, and his acceleration is even a strength...

Criticizing skating without any specific context is weird.

Skating
Zary is a good skater, if somewhat unconventional. His stride can be a bit short and choppy at times, but this doesn’t seem to take away from his speed. He is still above average in terms of his top-end speed and he reaches that quickly with good acceleration. Zary also has very good agility and edgework. This helps him to get around defenders, both with and without the puck. Strong backwards skating also helps him to play a 200-foot game. Zary has a strong stride, that helps him to fight through checks and get to the dirty areas of the ice. It also helps him to work along the boards. If he can improve his lower body strength, this will improve even more going forward.

Sounds like the Emile Poirier complaints of skating. Said to be a poor skater but he was quick as hell

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by AC

Reading the HFBoards thread about him is fun. Fans that watch the WHL specifically posting their thoughts on him over the last 2 seasons mainly.

Some quotes:
"He's incredible. He's definitely going 1st round next year. What a stud."

"I think he might be the most underrated prospect in this draft so far."

"I really think this kid is gonna be the steal of the 2020 draft"

"I live in Kamloops and have seen him play almost every game (I have season tickets). I had him in my top 10 for the past year and have been laughed at. The kid is the real deal. Plays a 200 ft game, amazing skater, excellent shot, and great playmaker ability. Such a complete player and a joy to watch."

"Rocking 53 points (25 goals) in 37 games (1.43 P/G) [finished with a 1.51 P/G] and absolutely does it all as the focal point in Kamloops. He’s a good skater, defensively responsible, smart, good size, and has a mean streak to go along with it.

To put it in perspective, Dach went 3rd with 1.18 P/G, Cozens 7th with 1.24 P/G, Patrick 2nd with 1.39 P/G, Glass 6th with 1.36 P/G, Rasmussen 9th with 1.10 P/G, Reinhart 2nd with 1.75 P/G on a stacked team, Draisaitl 3rd with 1.64 P/G, Virtanen 6th with 1.00 P/G, RNH 1st with 1.53 P/G, Johansen 4th with 0.97 P/G, Connolly 6th with 1.18 P/G, in the last decade."

"Every single viewing I've had of Zary he's been incredibly good and I've come away impressed. Literally everything about his games screams strong NHL career."

Was this the highest scoring group of draft eligible CHL players ever?

When was the last time that a player with Zary's stats didn't go in the top-10?

Monahan 6th with 1.34 ppg ...

[Calgary4LIfe]

Watching a bunch of his highlight videos, I don't care if he is a fast skater or not (and I can't seem to see him having an issue in his acceleration or top speed anyway). Why?


This kid plays AT speed. He reminds me somewhat of Gaudreau - he is making plays in-tight and with speed. He isn't just carrying the puck on his stick as fast as he can skate like Lombardi or something (not a knock on Lombardi at all back then), but he is making moves at speed, he is attacking at speed, he is making plays at speed.


Worst case scenario and he doesn't improve his skating at all (which would be rather surprising, actually), is that he won't win as many races to the puck. However, once he has the puck, he plays at speed with the puck and looks very capable to make very quick decisions with the puck, or use his edges and puck possession ability to go around defenders deftly, and his shot seems to have a really nice quick release too.


I really like this kid.



As for Pelletier - I think he is underrated as well. Kid competes incredibly hard. I would be that he will be an NHL'er sooner rather that later. I thought he would make it next season, but with this damn pandemic, I am not sure how that will affect him, as I thought he would benefit from a having some AHL time for his development. Wouldn't surprise me if he made things difficult for the Flames whenever the season starts up again (and if the Flames pull him out of junior for training camp/pre-season - not sure that will really be an option), but more likely next year will be his push to make the team.

[TheScorpion]

Pronman gives the Flames a B for their draft:

https://theathletic.com/2088414/2020...shared_article

Likes the Zary, Kuznetsov and Poirier picks. Thinks Boltmann was a surprise. Has no notes on Chechelev. Likes Francis' skill, thinks skating could be an issue. Thinks Kerins is smart and has decent but not great speed and skill. Solovyov is a good puck-mover but has weak boots.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Pronman gives the Flames a B for their draft:

https://theathletic.com/2088414/2020...shared_article

Likes the Zary, Kuznetsov and Poirier picks. Thinks Boltmann was a surprise. Has no notes on Chechelev. Likes Francis' skill, thinks skating could be an issue. Thinks Kerins is smart and has decent but not great speed and skill. Solovyov is a good puck-mover but has weak boots.

Any points for adding picks and still getting Zary?

[Brad Marsh]

Yeah, not only adding the two extra picks, but then using them to draft two additional prospects. Restocking the cupboards a little bit in a deep draft (Poirier at 72?).....great draft, IMO.

I really liked a lot of their picks - even the late picks all seem to have some upside.

Honestly, the only one I'm really not "getting" at this point is the Boltmann pick in the third round, especially with so much talent still on the board.......will be interesting to follow this one over time and hopefully see what the scouting staff is seeing. But this pick likely limits the overall rating for the Flames draft, at least at the moment.