2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

You can’t win without a goalie. Talbot was their MVP, but he isn’t a 60 game starter, and we should cease pretending there are ways to overcome not having a 60-game starter.

A 60 game starter has not won the cup since 2012

2013 - Lockout Shortened Season
2014 - Quick started 49 games
2015 - Crawford started 57 games
2016 - Murray started 13 games
2017 - Murray started 47 games, and Fleury played for half the playoffs
2018 - Holtby started 54 games, even lost his net mid-season
2019 - Binnington started 30 games
2020 - neither goalie for either team likely in the cup final started 60 games, and Khudobin might not even be considered a starter

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

It's interesting to look at the Stars as well, as a team that has been similarly mediocre and update and down.
They had 5 straight years out of the playoffs from 2009 to 2013.
But they never really bottomed out drafting:
#8 - Scott Glennie
#11 - Jack Campbell
#14 - Jamie Oleksiak
#13 - Radek Faksa
#14 - Valeri Nichushkin

Classic example of a team not being bad enough to get the elite picks.

Since then they
2014 - Lost in Round 1
2015 - Missed
2016 - Lost in Round 2
2017/2018 - Missed
2019 - Lost in Round 2
2020 - Finals!

They never executed scorched earth but rather re-tooled some of the elements. They also got a high pick to get Heiskenen and he looks like a game changer.

But my point is they are an example of a team not executing scorched earth but rather just re-tooling and now they are in the finals.

Perhaps in a cap world you take your shots, as best you can, as long as you've got enough pieces in place.

Thinking out loud.

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The stars have drafted in the first round every since 2009, have picked multiple times in the 1st round twice in that span, and made 9 1st round selections in the top 15.

So just in the last 10 years they've 1) Drafted higher than the flames ever have and 2) drafted in the first round more than once more times than the Flames ever have.

1st round selection Denis Gurianov has 14 points in 15 playoff games this year.

So even if Supermatt is right about there being more than one way of doing things, the Flames aren't doing it the way the stars are, either.

The Flames have to go scorched earth because they have spent picks with reckless abandon for the last 15+ years.

If the Flames had that kind of draft quantity they wouldn't have to go scorched earth either, but they don't, so they do.

[mile]

Stauffer saying the Coyotes are sitting on a deal for Kuemper for a 1st. Possibly late teens or in the 20s?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1305965982142218240

[bax]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Sure

159 GP 2.85 .906 5 SO - Ramo

115 GP 2.82 .908 3 SO - Rittich

That’s why.

That doesn't explain anything.

I'm saying Rittich can continue to develop and get better. Why can't he?

173 GP 2.90 GAA .909 8 SO - Dubnyk

Quoting a stat line doesn't tell a development story.

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by mile

Stauffer saying the Coyotes are sitting on a deal for Kuemper for a 1st. Possibly late teens or in the 20s?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1305965982142218240

Me thinks Treliving has offered up 19th OA for Kuemper.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It's been so long since the Flames have had consistently solid goaltending, that whenever a goalie does play well, fans immediately jump to the 'he won the game for us', 'he was our best player', mantra.

For so long we've had to say "can't blame that on the goalie", blurgh.

It has been one of this team's biggest issues for almost a decade now - and we keep making excuses for whatever bargain bin trade/free agent we stumble across.

I know people will flip when we fire off a 1st round pick for a goalie this summer, but I'll just be happy to know we finally won't have bottom of the barrel goaltending.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The Flames have to go scorched earth because they have spent picks with reckless abandon for the last 15+ years.

If the Flames had that kind of draft quantity they wouldn't have to go scorched earth either, but they don't, so they do.

Our idea of what scorched earth is, clearly differs. If you eliminate the old core of Giordano, Brodie, Backlund, Monahan and Gaudreau, you are left with a strong young group of players yet to hit their peak ability. You could get rid of all of these guys, and I can see an argument for going that way, but I think that the Flames are in the position where some of their young guys have surpassed the abilities of the old core. Tkachuk, Lindholm and Andersson. We have also seen strides in the group coming up behind them.

Giordano is likely to play out his contract here. Backlund has control over his own destiny until next year. Brodie has likely priced himself out of Calgary and wants to play in the East. Most people here have come to terms trading JG, and are split on Monahan.

That's possibly 3 out of 5 core pieces gone. So, charred earth?

Stealth answer for ER ------ tenure.

[Enoch Root]

Monahan is part of the old core and Lindholm is part of the young core?

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by bax

That doesn't explain anything.

I'm saying Rittich can continue to develop and get better. Why can't he?

173 GP 2.90 GAA .909 8 SO - Dubnyk

Quoting a stat line doesn't tell a development story.

He can, but the chances of this are quite low.
I'm pretty sure that Rittich regressed in both save percentage and GSAA this past year. Many of the league's elite goaltenders are now younger than Rittich.

We should hope for the best, but we should avoid placing all of our eggs in this basket. Look how it turned out with Leeland Irving.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The Flames have to go scorched earth because they have spent picks with reckless abandon for the last 15+ years.

If the Flames had that kind of draft quantity they wouldn't have to go scorched earth either, but they don't, so they do.

No they don't.

They have a team full of assets with value that could be retained or moved for other valuable assets. If moved they could be in exchange for different players or futures.

This isn't a team with say Jarome Iginla and nothing else, and Iginla is a year away from free agency.

2012 the Flames had an old roster and they missed the playoffs. They had Backlund, Irving, Brodie, Baertschi and Reinhart as their prospect base and really nobody else under the age of 25. That's a rebuild. That's scorched Earth.

This team has Giordano at 36, a UFA goaltender at 31, soon to be UFA Ryan, Lucic and Backlund north of 30, and most contributors in the 23-27 range.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Nelson

Me thinks Treliving has offered up 19th OA for Kuemper.

If that is the deal me thinks Tre should be fired.

[Toonage]

Is akaRCN reliable? Later in that thread they say its the Flames who they think has the offer on the table.

[Monahammer]

Im done talking about coyotes trades, if that #### happens it happens. Tre should probably have been let go already but this is the situation we're in.

I hope that the Gaudreau trade is done tastefully.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by mile

Stauffer saying the Coyotes are sitting on a deal for Kuemper for a 1st. Possibly late teens or in the 20s?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1305965982142218240

Just absolutely #### me

[mile]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Is akaRCN reliable? Later in that thread he says its the Flames who he thinks have the offer on the table.

He just tweets rumours and news he hears on the radio.

Him thinking it’s Calgary is just his guess.

[Flames_F.T.W]

Does a 1st for Kuemper and Hall's rights equal better value?? I reeeeeeaaallly dont want to give up a 1st at all

[Poe969]

instead of going for Kumpner, I'd do whatever to trade up and grab Askarov....if at all possible.

[ComixZone]

Is it that we haven't had a top tier goalie for so long that we don't think one is worth a 1st round pick?

Kuemper is a top 10 goalie. He does have some injury history, but he is still the best shot we have at moving this team forward. I'd sooner move the 2021 1st than the 2020 1st, that's for sure - but if we're getting Kuemer and Hall's rights? I'm all over that.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Is it that we haven't had a top tier goalie for so long that we don't think one is worth a 1st round pick?

Kuemper is a top 10 goalie. He does have some injury history, but he is still the best shot we have at moving this team forward. I'd sooner move the 2021 1st than the 2020 1st, that's for sure - but if we're getting Kuemer and Hall's rights? I'm all over that.

You'd move the 2021 1st over the known 19th pick?

There's a very good chance that 2021 1st is a very high pick.

Beyond that, we can pick up a good goaltender is free agency without giving up anything.

[dammage79]

Well, if Stauffer thinks a mid/late teens to high 20th oa pick is on the table, really only 2 teams need a goalie in that range....Hawks and Flames.

I can see the Hawks move their 1st for Kuemper, they're more in line with a resurgence than we are.