[News] UPD: Geoff Ward officially named the franchise's 20th head coach (2 year deal)

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

I think you're missing the point. One can still support the team and hope for them to get better, and find interest in discussing their moves and the implications therein... without wanting their money to go towards a new stadium for them to play Geoff Ward hockey in with a roster held together with duct tape and twigs. Following trades and transactions and sharing ideas with other people over some common topic is still in its own way supporting the team, and can be a source of joy for a lot of people. Everyone here wants the Flames to get better. Participating in a community is a fundamental human activity. Is it fair for you or anyone else to judge who is or is not a "real" fan on the basis of how they choose to express it?

I'm not judging anybody, I gave you the definition. But the above goes against what you said about having no love left for the team, having a disinterest, which is why I called the kind of thing bull####. If that were really true, you wouldn't care to follow trades, signings, discuss moves about the team really, would you?

From an actual judgement perspective, it really is hard to consider yourself a fan when you don't watch the team. It's hockey, it's played on the ice, to actually show an interest and engage with the product, you have to watch it in some form. Can you imagine if someone said "Yeah I'm a big fan of the Sopranos, great show" and when asked what their favourite episode was, they said "Oh, I don't have any interest in watching it, I just read the IMBD and the Wikipedia articles summing up the plot of each episode." Weird, right? It's fine, and if that's what makes you happy and gives you joy you should do it without any judgement at all, but who would call themselves a fan on paper?

Being a fan is nothing admirable, it's not an interesting character trait. You either are one, or you're not. But I think the idea of advocating for people to demand better of the franchise when you don't watch the franchise is a strange thing to do. I like what Vlad said about hope. I have hope. All the time the Flames do some things I disagree with or things I think are downright stupid in the moment, but I'll be there watching the games and hoping it turns out well, because I enjoy them. I'm a fan. I don't need to "demand better" but I certainly always hope for better. I think a lot of fans happily pay for the product because they enjoy the product, and their enjoyment doesn't strictly stem from summaries and transactions on paper. It stems from hockey.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

I don't get what you're saying here. Is your position "if you don't watch the games and disagree with the way the organization is heading, shut up and go away?"

The number of games I actually watched this year can be counted on one hand, and even that felt like too much. This team isn't fun to watch, it's poorly built, and management appears to have no appetite for change. I follow what the team does on paper because I find trades, signings, and off-ice moves interesting. And I advocate for people to demand better of this organization because we often underestimate the power we have as fans. I think we've simply been conditioned to believe we're helpless and that we should just accept mediocrity as the norm.

It's not some vague threat of "I'm gonna stop watching, so there!" screamed into the void. Stop paying for garbage and you'll stop getting garbage. As fans we have a right to demand that from an organization we hand over our money to support, either willingly or through our tax dollars. Is that such an unreasonable stance?

Well, go scream at the Flames then.

I'm honestly right there with you, in that my interest to watch games has just completely crashed and I'm just way less emotionally involved in their success one way or the other.

I don't however spend my time crying about it on this forum, because it's extremely tiresome when the forum is already so filled with so many people just constantly ranting, whining and complaining about everything.

Besides, I thought this was the best playoff showing the Flames have had in a long time. Solid work ethic game after game and tightly contested games against a really good opponent. I saw what I thought to be some good, fun hockey.

Then I come on this forum and it's like this playoff was some huge disaster and it's just tiresome.

If you want to stop paying for Flames hockey, do that. If you want to send angry messages the Flames org, go do that. If you don't want to watch games then don't.

But please consider that we're not the Flames org here. We're just other fans and some of us are trying to actually enjoy stuff.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Yeah, especially Sigalet. Has any goalie improved under him?

Sigalet scouted Rittich, and he became a 40-game NHL starter and played in the ASG all under Sigalet.

So, there's one.

[Flash Walken]

Ward's full contract is less than the flames paid Michael stone just last year.

[Toonage]

Won't do a full summary of this Ward interview but going by his glowing praise for Gio, Gaudreau & Monahan they won't be going anywhere.

Yes, I understand he doesn't make that call.

Speaking highly of Rittich & Talbot too.

This is starting to feel like one big kiss of death for these players.

[dammage79]

Just caught a soundbite from Craig Button on tsn where he think Ward should replace Huska. Or more accurately, find another coach to work on defensemen. I think that may be the right move too.

Said it earlier, Huska and Sigalet can lose their seat. Ray Edward's will probably go back to player development.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Just caught a soundbite from Craig Button on tsn where he think Ward should replace Huska. Or more accurately, find another coach to work on defensemen. I think that may be the right move too.

Said it earlier, Huska and Sigalet can lose their seat. Ray Edward's will probably go back to player development.

I'm not onboard with this anti-Huska stuff. He was big in the development of Mangiapane and Andersson, and both of those guys play with a good amount of intensity/aggression. That's stuff we need.

[dino7c]

Even if you wanted to trade a guy why would you trash them? To look desperate and bring the value down?

[Flash Walken]

I thought this board loved huska?

[1qqaaz]

I used to be on the anti-Huska train when he was the head coach of the Heat. I thought they under-performed with him as coach, and he seemed to make excuses quite often.

But he does seem to be quite knowledgeable, and like ComixZone said, players have actually been developing on the Flames roster.
Continuity is pretty important for development.

I'm all for replacing Sigalet though.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Freeway

All due respect to Bob, but he was an AWFUL strategic coach. He was brought in to instill work ethic into a rebuilding, young team. That's it. His solution to every problem was "work harder." He was a stupendously bad strategic mind whose results were bolstered by a white-hot PDO run (everything went in!) and a lucky match-up against a deficient Vancouver team in the playoffs.



Gulutzan was brought in to add strategy and philosophy to a hard-working team.

Are you telling me going into the third period losing 80% of the time is not a sound strategy?

[dammage79]

Huska is fine. But Im just looking at the bench and seeing where improvements could be made. D was kind of a mess last season. And goalies, welll we are witnessing the same old song and dance...again in regards to Sigalet. That conversation is like a broken record. 3 years in a row now.

[tfi racing]

Relax. When is the last time a Flames' coach has been behind the bench for the duration of his contract? Soon you will add Ward to the long line of coaches that collected paycheques for a while from somewhere else...

[djsFlames]

Can we pay a large sum under the table to pry the goalie coach out of Vancouver?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by tfi racing

Relax. When is the last time a Flames' coach has been behind the bench for the duration of his contract? Soon you will add Ward to the long line of coaches that collected paycheques for a while from somewhere else...

LoL, this post is actually pretty funny.

Don't recognize the username, but I hope you stick around with satire like this.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Bingo

in that series the Flames had 45% of the shot attempts (five on five), 47% of the xGF%, and 48% of the high danger chances. They were ... out played.

He got the result, and you can't take that away from him, but not so sure it was exemplary coaching. If Vancouver got any goaltending in that series it has a different out come.

How much better were those numbers in the Gulutzan series against Anaheim or the Peter's series against Corado or the Ward series against Dallas? That is what we should compare them to in order to determine the greatest playoff coach during the BT era.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by tfi racing

Relax. When is the last time a Flames' coach has been behind the bench for the duration of his contract? Soon you will add Ward to the long line of coaches that collected paycheques for a while from somewhere else...

Isn't that true of virtually every NHL coach?

It's rare for a coach to have less than a year left on his contract without looking for an extension. As a result, almost every coach will have term left on his contract when he's fired.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by tfi racing

Relax. When is the last time a Flames' coach has been behind the bench for the duration of his contract? Soon you will add Ward to the long line of coaches that collected paycheques for a while from somewhere else...

To answer your question, Brent Sutter and Mike Keenan. Not sure about Playfair.

So it's really only the Treliving era which has seen coaches get fired, although Gulutzan and Hartley were both fired in the offseason and Peters obviously comes with an asterisk.

So I think it's a really safe bet that Ward will coach at least through next season.

Of course if Ward doesn't get the team through the first round or otherwise really impress, Treliving is likely gone, and then it's 50/50 whether the new GM will let Ward finish his second season.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm always amazed how much Hartley is romanticized in this city.

He was pretty much pulled off the scrap heap to coach in an era where they had no expectations.

I appreciated his play with the media, and the fact the team worked hard but they were massively overplayed through his entire tenure.

Even the playoffs series against Vancouver, which was the best draw a 2nd place team could get in my memory wasn't a concise Flames win.

in that series the Flames had 45% of the shot attempts (five on five), 47% of the xGF%, and 48% of the high danger chances. They were ... out played.

He got the result, and you can't take that away from him, but not so sure it was exemplary coaching. If Vancouver got any goaltending in that series it has a different out come.

I won't speak for everyone else on this board who liked Hartley (rumoured personality issues aside), but this is why I think he was the 'last best coach' this team has had since Darryl.


They out-performed expectations. Period. That's it. I can't think of another time that this Flames' team has out-performed expectations since their '04 run. I honestly can't think of a time where they simply 'met expectations' since Daryl, at least not when you consider the playoffs. They also happened to be fun to watch at the same time.


However, I do remember that 'unsustainable' season not just because 'everything was going in' like Freeway suggested above, but because I remember a lot of well-reasoned posts by many people on this board.


You would often see posts after more than a handful of games that season where they got destroyed analytically, but the general sentiment on many PGTs were: "Yeah, that's why analytics suck - the other team had the puck a lot more and took a lot more useless shots, but I thought Calgary was the more dangerous team by a mile" - or various sentiments like that. Some games were OUTRIGHT FLUKE WINS, definitely - but they also happen throughout any given season for any team. I don't know if I will call it a 'general' sentiment on these boards or not, but at a popular (semi-popular? not uncommon? definitely not rare?) sentiment on these boards was that the Flames' system just didn't jive with the analytics community, but that it was a sustainable system on its' own.



Now, let me start off by apologizing here if I am misremembering this - I really hate it when people try to push words or ideas out of someone else's mouth here, but didn't you write an article sort of explaining why the Flames are not as 'unsustainable' as the analytic community was eager to point out? I vaguely remember that, but it has been a number of years, so if I am misrembering here, I apologize.


In essence, I always felt two things about Hartley:
1) He was a great teacher (lauded often from opposing teams' tv crew for teaching on the ice during the morning skates, etc) and being just a fantastic coach for a rebuilding team to have.
2) Actually creating a system that fits the teams composition and talent level. I felt that if this team tried to play Gulutzan's system, or Babcock's system, or whatever Trotz uses, that they wouldn't experience any success and that the analytics would have probably been just as bad.


Again, I can't speak for everyone, but Hartley did one thing that few coaches in the history of the Calgary Flames ever did - experience more success than what was expected. That's why I will always love him and that incredibly exciting and fun to watch team.

[FlamesAddiction]

Based on the limited viewing we saw, I don't think this is anywhere near as bad as the Gulutzan hire. I also don't think it's a big deal that they didn't interview external candidates this time. Teams promote from within all the time, especially when they have already designated someone as an associate.

It's been mentioned before, but Laviolette was never going to choose Calgary. Gallant, besides having the red flags, is likely to wait it out. Of the high-profile coaches available, that leaves Boudreau and Sutter. Sutter indicated that he likely won't return to coaching. And Boudreau, I just don't think he is a fit this team.

Other guys with previous NHL head coaching experience, like Bylsma and Kitchen, seem to have fallen off everyone's radar.