2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

If there is anyone who knows anything about making up stories, it's FW.

Holy Crap. So much supposition. I suspect that had Burke's anecdote been about any other NHL team, he would not have been nearly so interested in fabricating such a colourful narrative. What's embarrassing are the elaborations to which he extends in order to bolster his own ideas about how the Flames are the worst franchise in the history of the NHL.

Originally Posted by Textcritic

It is actually right in line with what has become quite typical FW fodder to take the absolute least favourable position with respect to the Flames. He would no doubt take exceptional delight in this terrible deal, and we would never hear the end of it.

These two posts are pure ad hominem attacks.

2. Respect the other posters. Don't be a jerk, be civil. Don't harass or bully others.

3. Address the topic, not the poster. Having your opinion, claim or argument challenged, doubted or dismissed is not attacking you.

4. Make a positive contribution. Stay on the thread's topic, don't intentionally derail or otherwise assassinate a thread. If you don't like a thread, don't post in it. This isn't a forum for trash talking and flame wars.

You can find the guidelines for the forum you moderate here: https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=140514

Maybe if all you have to offer is personal attacks against me you should add me to your ignore list.

[Strange Brew]

I have no doubt that Burke took license with the story to make it sound interesting. I’d have a hard time putting much weight into his telling of the sequence of events.

I do expect the Flames to spend money on the blue line and to give up assets by trading for someone with retained salary. We’ve seen it before.

[AC]

Friedman went on the Buffalo station today, nothing earth shattering but Gaudreau talk on a non-Calgary station is always interesting to me.

https://www.radio.com/media/audio-ch...iotte-friedman

@ 3:54 Andrew Peters:

I had someone tell me that Johnny Gaudreau might be... or no, I'm going to say they told me he is available in Calgary. I'm just curious to know if you've heard that at all?

Friedman:

Yeah, I think at the very least they're gauging interest on him, yes. I do think that. Now, I'll tell you this: I think they're going to be very careful with this one. Gaudreau hasn't had great playoffs, but you still have to get there, right? And he gets you there. He's a points producer, he's a very talented guy, and it's hard to make the playoffs in this league... and he gets them there.

I think they'll look at it, I think they will consider it, I think it's possible it happens, but I think they're also determined: "don't be stupid, don't make a bad deal, don't do it just for the sake of doing it".

The thing that's really a factor here is the clock. Johnny Gaudreau is 2 years away from unrestricted free agency and I think Calgary has to be realistic about their chances of keeping him, which is why I think this decision is being moved to the front burner.

Andrew Peters then proposes a bigger deal involving Gaudreau + Jankowski for Reinhart + Montour/Ristolainen. He asks Friedman if he thinks there's a bigger deal to be made here?

Friedman with a lot of non-speak and reiterating what we've heard about OEL and Ristolainen:

Yes, I think there's the possibility of that. I do believe that Calgary is looking at defensive options. One of the guys that I think Calgary has looked at is OEL (as I mentioned on their radio station). Brad Treliving used to work in Arizona, he knows OEL really well. Don Maloney is on the staff in Calgary. So I think he's a guy they've looked at.

But more of interest to you guys (in Buffalo), I think Calgary has investigated Ristolainen before. I don't know if it's ever been close, but I think it's something they have considered and looked into pretty deeply. He's a player they've spent some time on.

Look, if they trade Gaudreau there's no question it's a big deal and it's probably going to be an altering deal for them, so it's probably going to be an altering deal for whoever makes it.

Also interesting to note that Friedman thinks there's a chance Danault is traded out of Montreal instead of Domi.

[Calgary14]

Oilers have signed Adam Cracknell to a one year, two way contract.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article...-way-contract/

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Calgary14

Oilers have signed Adam Cracknell to a one year, two way contract.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article...-way-contract/

Good for him.
Not many 9th round picks manage to get NHL contracts at the age of 35.

[FlamesFanTrev]

Originally Posted by Calgary14

Oilers have signed Adam Cracknell to a one year, two way contract.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article...-way-contract/

Kinda makes you wonder which "way" he's hoping for tho, doesn't it?

[Vinny01]

Lots of OEL discussion on the fan.

Friedman thinks they are in on him for sure.

Says there is a ton of league wide interest in Kuemper and could see a deal for him happening sooner than later

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

You ever go to a work function or a dinner party and someone tells a story in which they think it makes them look good but you're struck with how it actually makes them look bad?

So the story as Burke tells it is that the Flames, at the time that means he and Treliving, are several calls deep into inquiring about Ristoleinen. Several calls deep of course means that this deal actually has traction.

So they loop in their analytics guy.

So right there, Burke is trying to make snow look good but is actually telling a couple of really interesting pieces about the Flames management workflow:

1) The Flames don't loop in their analytics staff from the start (bad)
2) The Flames are using the eye-test from senior management to on-board acquisitions (not great)

Ok, so they loop in snow who tells them they would be 'crazy' to trade for this player.

Ok, so the senior management of the team has their sights on a player, they like this player enough that they've gotten several calls deep about him. Presumably, they have watched this player and maybe even had scouts look at him as well. The cumulative management expertise of this team has them pursuing a player that their analytics guy says they would be 'crazy' to trade for.

So, not great.

The Flames are then so persuaded by Snow, Burke calls him a genius, that they immediately nix the trade.

So if Snow's opinion is so valuable, why didn't the Flames come to him immediately? If you've got a guy this talented in the organization, why are senior managers using the eye test to onboard trade discussions at all, why isn't Snow onboarding the trade discussions to them?

Anyway, just one of those things. Probably 10% true because it's a story from Burke on national TV, but if it is true or mostly true explains some of the talent evaluations that have happened during the last several years. Maybe the Flames understand how to use snow's abilities better now but I don't think that story is flattering to the Flames as Burke thought it was going to be when he told it.

You get all that from this?

Burke stated on sportsnet that calgary already nix a trade evolving hi. Cause his numbers were not good I believe

Around a GM that is known to have a process and is always looking to turn over every rock, but he keeps his analytics guy out until the final decision point?

How about Buffalo approached Calgary with a trade around Risto and the Flames looked at the player and the numbers as a group and said no?

Don't get me wrong you could be right as I don't know the inner workings of their system, but that doesn't pass the smell test to me.

[rogermexico]

A lot of people on here have been pretty firmly opposed to OEL. Is that mainly because of the contract, or has his play dropped off recently? I think of him as being a clear-cut number one guy, but I may be a few years out of date on that. What’s the scoop on him as a player these days?

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by rogermexico

A lot of people on here have been pretty firmly opposed to OEL. Is that mainly because of the contract, or has his play dropped off recently? I think of him as being a clear-cut number one guy, but I may be a few years out of date on that. What’s the scoop on him as a player these days?

I also wonder how people feel if Arizona retains $2 MM on his contract. Personally, I would way rather have OEL moving forward than Giordano.

I would love to see a top Swedish pairing with OEL-Andersson .. then we need to find a player from Finland to play with Valimaki

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by rogermexico

A lot of people on here have been pretty firmly opposed to OEL. Is that mainly because of the contract, or has his play dropped off recently? I think of him as being a clear-cut number one guy, but I may be a few years out of date on that. What’s the scoop on him as a player these days?

He's no longer young, and his ability to drive play was nothing more than middling last season, which is a likely indication that his overall play is starting to drop off.

He's certainly not worth his salary right now and it's only going to get worse. This is a contract you'll be begging to get rid of after year 2.

The idea that we could give up assets for him is terrifying.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

He's no longer young, and his ability to drive play was nothing more than middling last season, which is a likely indication that his overall play is starting to drop off.

He's certainly not worth his salary right now and it's only going to get worse. This is a contract you'll be begging to get rid of after year 2.

The idea that we could give up assets for him is terrifying.

Yeah, if you look at his play over the last two years he is much closer to Hanifin (with less offence) than he is to Gio. That's a serious problem since his salary is double.

Who knows, maybe a different situation allows him to turn it around and blossom, but that's a huge gamble to take on a guy that is signed for over 8 million for the next seven seasons. With our depth on the left side, this rumour doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

Only way I would consider a deal for him is if they are including some serious value elsewhere and retaining salary.

[JTech780]

With teams looking to cut salary, is there an opportunity for this team to take advantage of that?

For instance if we were to trade Gaudreau to Buffalo, coyld we take back a bad contract in the form of a Okposo or Ristolainen to try and pry more out of them.

Gaudreau for Cozens, Okposo, 8th overall and Jokiharju.

[Voodooman]

There just isn't enough of a sweetener available for Arizona to throw in to making taking on the OEL contact even remotely palatable. Even if they retain $2M per, add in Kuemper and a pick, I wouldn't want to give up any key pieces for that, unless they magically convinced Hall to take a sign and trade deal at $6M X 5. What do we even give you for that package?

I wish Tre would just stop talking to them, and with every passing day, a terrible deal seems more and more inevitable. Wait for the draft and FA signing, and see who's out there.

I don't mind the idea of Mark Borowiecki on a 2 to 3 year deal. Solid, stay at home d-man, who can likely be signed in the $2-3M range. Replacement for Hamonic (even with the LvR shot difference), and I think I'd rather Boro than Gus or Forbort.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Lots of OEL discussion on the fan.

Friedman thinks they are in on him for sure.

Says there is a ton of league wide interest in Kuemper and could see a deal for him happening sooner than later

Anyone else find it reckless for the coyotes to trust these potential big moves being made without a full time GM? Talk about dysfunction.

Then again, if they aren’t meeting signing bonus deadlines, maybe there’s no money for a GM. Sad state of affairs.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by JTech780

With teams looking to cut salary, is there an opportunity for this team to take advantage of that?

For instance if we were to trade Gaudreau to Buffalo, coyld we take back a bad contract in the form of a Okposo or Ristolainen to try and pry more out of them.

Gaudreau for Cozens, Okposo, 8th overall and Jokiharju.

I think Buffalo is the perfect team to pry.
Rumor of the Pegula's putting the team cap around 70M (low 70's)

However this also means they're likely to hold onto draft picks and use space with ELC's vs's their overpaid players.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Anyone else find it reckless for the coyotes to trust these potential big moves being made without a full time GM? Talk about dysfunction.

Then again, if they aren’t meeting signing bonus deadlines, maybe there’s no money for a GM. Sad state of affairs.

Not if they’re offloading their crap to the guys who used to be there. Any sucker who’ll buy their overpriced junk deserves what they get.

[Erick Estrada]

I get a little worried about the whole Treliving, Maloney, OEL thing. Familiarity IMO should never trump track record or current state of play. When Treliving, Maloney, and OEL were in the same building in Arizona the results on the ice were poor so I was never fond of Maloney joining the organization nor would I be fond of the team acquiring a declining defenseman on a bad contract just because Treliving and Maloney think he's a good guy and they liked him in Phoenix when he was in his prime. I just hate when managers look back to the past when dealing with the present. Move on and base your evaluations on the present not the past.

[mrdonkey]

There’s no way to make that OEL contract look good. It’s bad now and it’s only going to get worse. Comes with a NMC to boot.

Really don’t like the smoke around this guy at all. Sounds to me like Treliving and Maloney are wearing their nostalgia goggles.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

These two posts are pure ad hominem attacks.



You can find the guidelines for the forum you moderate here: https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=140514

Maybe if all you have to offer is personal attacks against me you should add me to your ignore list.

Those comments were an expression of opinion about the content of the posts and the posting style. Not an emotional appeal based on character, which is ad hominem.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ad%20hominem