Potential Gaudreau trades: Rest of Eastern Conference Post#253

[timbit]

Originally Posted by N26

This may be defensible but who didn't immediately flash back to Bob Mackenzie and the Hall-Larson trade

Flyers leading scorer. RS RW with 5 more years at 5.5 mil. 23 years old.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Johnny for the Selke winner. Straight up.

[N26]

Originally Posted by Bonded

For who? It seems even to slightly in the Flyers favour if Gaudreau gets back to his normal numbers.

A 23-year old signed for 5 years at $5.5 who plays both wings, has some jam, three straight 24-goal seasons and appears to be on the upswing. Yummy

Not a great playoff though.

The reason I have soured on Johnny is that he is just SO ONE-DIMENSIONAL. And when that one dimension isn't working he has almost no contribution to make. It's a great dimension and when he is firing it is fantastic but the last year and a half has made him look so neutralizable (is that a word?).

Would I take a 65-point multi-faceted forward while Johnny gets 90+ for another team and then is made ineffective by tight, physical defense. I think I might. Is Konecny the guy? Not sure.

I wouldn't do a 1for1 anyways but it's not an unreasonable suggestion.

[N26]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Ya you made a completely unrealistic deal. JVR for Murray??? Zero chance that deal happens. The Pens are looking for first round picks for Murray not overpaid 31 year old wingers.

The deal I made was JVR, a fifth and the rights to Jankowski for the rights to Murray and Nick Bjugstad. I didn't fully spell it out because my post was already so long and the focus was meant to be the Gaudreau trade.

I then bought out Bjugstad which was $600 000 for 2020-21.

Is that second trade realistic? I don't know. Maybe not but Pittsburgh has a very clear window with the end of the Crosby-Mallkin era at least within sight. Plus Jim Rutherford has shown that he is unafraid of the bolder moves to get those two shooting wingers.

Pittsburgh gets a scorer to replace Hornqvist (who doesn't seem to have it anymore), a youngish guy who needs a change and can at least PK and check and gets rid of the Bjugstad contract. All for a RFA-with-rights goalie of which they have one too many

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Ok, here goes...

Gaudreau (6,750,000 AAV)
Kylington (787,500 QO)

for

Konecny (5,500,000)
Ghostisbehere (4,500,000)
2020 2nd (54th overall)

Flames get the Flyers 2nd for taking on extra cap.


Flyers:

Giroux - Couturier - Voracek
Gaudreau - Hayes - Farabee
Lindblom - Frost - JVR
Laughton - Patrick - Raffl

Provorov - Niskanen
Sanheim - Myers
Hagg - Kylington

Hart

Flames:

Hall - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Bennett - Konecny
Mangiapane - Backlund - Dube
Lucic - Ryan - XXXXX

Giordano - Andersson
Hanifin - Ghostisbehere
Valimaki - XXXXX

Talbot
Rittich

Including Hall is cheating, as that is a separate item, and there is no assurance that it can even happen.

The trade needs to make sense on its own - you need to isolate variables in order to analyse them.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by timbit

Konecny. 1 for 1

Originally Posted by timbit

Flyers leading scorer. RS RW with 5 more years at 5.5 mil. 23 years old.

Konecny certainly has value, due to his age and contract, but IMO, Johnny is the better player with a way higher upside. Personally, I am not a big fan of trading talent for certainty.

But if you want to add to the Konecny return, I am all ears.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by N26

The deal I made was JVR, a fifth and the rights to Jankowski for the rights to Murray and Nick Bjugstad. I didn't fully spell it out because my post was already so long and the focus was meant to be the Gaudreau trade.

I then bought out Bjugstad which was $600 000 for 2020-21.

Is that second trade realistic? I don't know. Maybe not but Pittsburgh has a very clear window with the end of the Crosby-Mallkin era at least within sight. Plus Jim Rutherford has shown that he is unafraid of the bolder moves to get those two shooting wingers.

Pittsburgh gets a scorer to replace Hornqvist (who doesn't seem to have it anymore), a youngish guy who needs a change and can at least PK and check and gets rid of the Bjugstad contract. All for a RFA-with-rights goalie of which they have one too many

I think the Flames getting Couturier or Konecny for Gaudreau is far more realistic than the Pens trade you propose. The Pens will want youth and flexibility for Murray not a cap crunching deal for a guy who would be hard pressed to crack the top 6 there. Murray is a 26 year old 2x cup winner with multiple solid seasons. Sure he has injury history and hasn’t played great recently but surely he wouldn’t be moved for an aging, one dimensional, vastly overpaid winger.

I also struggle with the low balling of Myers and Mangipane. Myers is looking for at least an Andersson type deal and Mangi will probably seek a trade if the team grinds him on another negotiation. Ultimately I don’t think your proposed deal works at all for the Flames and some of the assumptions to make the numbers work just wouldn’t happen.

I don’t like the Flyers as a trade partner as I believe the Flames need to clear cap space to sign Hall and focus on a futures based return that brings in ample cap space. Based on rumor blogs and other online articles the Devils are going to have major interest if Johnny is shopped. With 3x 1st round picks they are loaded with assets and cap space to make a deal.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Konecny certainly has value, due to his age and contract, but IMO, Johnny is the better player with a way higher upside. Personally, I am not a big fan of trading talent for certainty.

But if you want to add to the Konecny return, I am all ears.

Flyers could use a bottom 6 center with Derek Grant going UFA. Perhaps a bigger deal makes sense?

Gaudreau+Ryan+2nd for Konecny+Gostisbhere+1st+4th

[N26]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I think the Flames getting Couturier or Konecny for Gaudreau is far more realistic than the Pens trade you propose. The Pens will want youth and flexibility for Murray not a cap crunching deal for a guy who would be hard pressed to crack the top 6 there. Murray is a 26 year old 2x cup winner with multiple solid seasons. Sure he has injury history and hasn’t played great recently but surely he wouldn’t be moved for an aging, one dimensional, vastly overpaid winger.

I also struggle with the low balling of Myers and Mangipane. Myers is looking for at least an Andersson type deal and Mangi will probably seek a trade if the team grinds him on another negotiation. Ultimately I don’t think your proposed deal works at all for the Flames and some of the assumptions to make the numbers work just wouldn’t happen.

I don’t like the Flyers as a trade partner as I believe the Flames need to clear cap space to sign Hall and focus on a futures based return that brings in ample cap space. Based on rumor blogs and other online articles the Devils are going to have major interest if Johnny is shopped. With 3x 1st round picks they are loaded with assets and cap space to make a deal.

Yeah I don't love the trade with Pittsburgh but it is at least defensible albeit unlikely. I definitely don't agree that Pittsburgh's motivation is youth. They want players for another run during the Crosby-Malkin era. If they are young then great but it's not the priority.

I don't think there is any chance Philly gives up Couturier. He is everything Johnny is lacking and still gets you 70-80 points. Konecny maybe.

Myers isn't getting an Andersson contract in this climate after 71 career games unless he signs for 8 years.But yeah, my 2 year $1.85per is pretty wishful thinking. Feel bad about squeezing Mangiapane but if my scenario was to work it was necessary.

I don't think Hall signs here if we trade Johnny for futures. That would be gift-wrapping him for the Avalanche.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by N26

Yeah I don't love the trade with Pittsburgh but it is at least defensible albeit unlikely.

I don't think there is any chance Philly gives up Couturier. He is everything Johnny is lacking and still gets you 70-80 points.Konecny maybe.

I don't think Hall signs here if we trade Johnny for futures. That would be gift-wrapping him for the Avalanche.

I agree Couturier is not going to happen.

Once the news broke the Flames were in deep on the Taylor Hall trade and Friedman saying he could see Calgary being the type of place Hall wants to play I started to see a scenario where the Flames swap Gaudreau for Hall and get the chance to recoup some futures that have been lost by past trades.

[dino7c]

You guys want the Flames to get better right? lol

[N26]

We'll do Philadelphia through tomorrow and then move on to New Jersey on Saturday.

So those of you who think the Devils are the team to deal with can start prepping now.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by dino7c

You guys want the Flames to get better right? lol

Yes. And you?

[AC]

A trade consisting of Gaudreau and Konecny as the main pieces, followed by signing Hall puts the Flames in a better position short-term and long-term IMO (especially as I believe Gaudreau finishes his contract and leaves if we do nothing).

Even if we can't sign Hall, I'd do that trade and chase Domi and/or Josh Anderson.

[N26]

Originally Posted by dino7c

You guys want the Flames to get better right? lol

Please expand as this thread is looking for in-depth analysis of possible Gaudreau trades.

This is just a drive-by

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Including Hall is cheating, as that is a separate item, and there is no assurance that it can even happen.

The trade needs to make sense on its own - you need to isolate variables in order to analyse them.

Yeah thats fine, there are other players to chase that could be younger and cheaper than Hall.

Try to get Josh Anderson out of CLB and move Dube to LW or go after Domi for the top 6.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by N26

Please expand as this thread is looking for in-depth analysis of possible Gaudreau trades.

This is just a drive-by

Gaudreau for draft picks or players worse than him isn't happening this off season

[Nelson]

I agree the Philly trade that makes the most sense involves Gaudreau and Konecny.

Johnny Gaudreau, 2021 3rd for Travis Konecny, Morgan Frost

Gaudreau is the most valuable piece in this trade so the Flyers add to Konecny. But Frost adds too much, so the Flames kick in a 3rd round pick.

[CliffFletcher]

I think people are missing the part where the deal makes sense for the Flyers. You can't just look at value. You have to look at the Flyer's roster, their depth chart, their cap situation, and ask yourself why Fletcher thinks the trade makes the Flyers better.

Trading Konecny removes a core piece, the Flyer's top RW going forward (Voracek is trending down), signed at a great deal. Their #2 RW after the trade would be Aube-Kobel. Adding Gaudreau to LW, where they already have Giroux, JvR, Lindblom, and Farabee, adds to an area of strength, and pushes a good player down to the 4th line.

Yes, Gaudreau might look great with Hayes, and help with the PP. But how much better is a #2 line of Gaudreau - Hayes - Aube-Kubel (or Lindblom playing his off-wing) than a #2 line of Farabee/JvR - Hayes - Konecny? I'd argue not much better, if at all. Then factor in the relative ages of the players (Konecny still likely to improve his production, while Gaudreau has likely already had his best season), and the long-term cap situation (if he re-signs in two seasons, Gaudreau will be asking $8 mil plus, while Konecny is locked in at $5.5 mil for five more seasons) and the valuation tilts further.

The OP asked for a very specific criteria for these proposals, and we're getting the same types of scoffing that we get in the regular trade rumours thread, as though proposing a trade that the other GM might actually want to make is an insult to the Flames.

[topfiverecords]

Johnny + Ward for Vigneault + some cheesesteaks