Ring Road To Nowhere

[Acey]

Trying to use the median ROW for pretty much anything requires going back to the table with Tsuu T'ina, which Alberta was scared to do in the first place when it came to fast tracking a design change to reduce the median.

[Fuzz]

So why not shove both roads to one side, make every bridge half as wide, and leave the empty space where it doesn't need to be spanned by massive bridges? Surely that would have saved money, right? I'm all for future proofing, but if the general feeling is it won't be needed, why?

[Acey]

Alberta’s transportation minister says the southwest portion of Calgary’s ring road has an overly lavish design his government would not have approved.

But Brian Mason said his government has no choice but to honour the plan crafted by the previous PC government that he said is considerably overbuilt, with the potential to contain 16 traffic lanes due to the inclusion of a 100-metre-wide median.

“My preference would be not to build it the way it is, and it’s correct to say it’s added to the cost,” Mason told Postmedia. “Is it overbuilt? There’s no question, no question.”

The minister overseeing construction of the 31-kilometre, $1.42-billion roadway said he’s sought to correct some of the freeway’s alignment “a number of times,” particularly in a bid to move it further from southwest communities.

But he said consultations with government engineers and the agreement with the Tsuut’ina First Nation allowing for the construction across their land have convinced him that’s not feasible.

“We are hamstrung in the effort to change the alignment of the roadway, the design is locked in,” he said. “It would have to be all renegotiated.”

The renegotiation he speaks of is the 2013 agreement with Tsuu T'ina to acquire the land, which was predicated on a conceptual design that could not be drastically changed without a return to the table... and there was concern up about running into the 2022 deadline by redesigning, which indeed would have cost the province far more than the ~$400 million extra we are paying for the median.

https://calgaryherald.com/news/polit...-fulfilling-it

[timun]

Originally Posted by Acey

Trying to use the median ROW for pretty much anything requires going back to the table with Tsuu T'ina, which Alberta was scared to do in the first place when it came to fast tracking a design change to reduce the median.

From what I recall from the agreement between the Province and the Nation, the land encompassing the Transportation and Utility Corridor is transferred completely to Alberta's jurisdiction, subject to completing the portion of the ring road through their land by the 2022 date. Otherwise Alberta is free to upgrade it in future, as long as it doesn't disrupt use or access to Nation lands. There was even talk of potentially running LRT through it.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by timun

From what I recall from the agreement between the Province and the Nation, the land encompassing the Transportation and Utility Corridor is transferred completely to Alberta's jurisdiction, subject to completing the portion of the ring road through their land by the 2022 date. Otherwise Alberta is free to upgrade it in future, as long as it doesn't disrupt use or access to Nation lands. There was even talk of potentially running LRT through it.

Yes, I've linked the agreement several times and it specifically mentions LRT, and also that the Nation is to be notified for usage other than TUC.

[timun]

I'm not gonna lie Acey: I'm at work and shouldn't even be surfing the internets, let alone parsing through the agreement with the Tsuut'ina. But I do appreciate that you provided the link, I'll look at it later to satiate my curiosity and set myself straight.

[TorqueDog]

But Brian Mason said his government has no choice but to honour the plan crafted by the previous PC government that he said is considerably overbuilt, with the potential to contain 16 traffic lanes due to the inclusion of a 100-metre-wide median.

Well, at least there's one thing the UCP can't f--k up.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by Acey

The more I think about how things tend go in this city, this is what I foresee happening on EB Glenmore between Sarcee and 37 St.

Looks like they're going with some kind of raised curbing that I can't really describe and don't remember seeing. It's like these, but rotated 90°, smaller, and closer together. Not sure if the way they have it now is the final form but it looks permanent. Big off-road Jeeps and such could cross them without issue but it would dissuade most.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Acey

Looks like they're going with some kind of raised curbing that I can't really describe and don't remember seeing. It's like these, but rotated 90°, smaller, and closer together. Not sure if the way they have it now is the final form but it looks permanent. Big off-road Jeeps and such could cross them without issue but it would dissuade most.

That looks and sounds like a terrible solution. Slow right down as they try to cross over which should blend well with the others doing 80-100.

[CroFlames]

So the western side of the city RR is overbuilt, and the eastern side underbuilt (only 2 lanes in many areas).

I guess if you average the overbuilt and underbuilt areas, it evens out...

[MacDaddy77]

anyone know if the 6th street and James Mckevitt overpasses opened today?

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

So the western side of the city RR is overbuilt, and the eastern side underbuilt (only 2 lanes in many areas).

I guess if you average the overbuilt and underbuilt areas, it evens out...

So glad I don't have to drive Stoney north of Peigan anymore in the afternoons. It's such a ####show from there until Country Hills

[lazypucker]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

So glad I don't have to drive Stoney north of Peigan anymore in the afternoons. It's such a ####show from there until Country Hills

The city/province is so shortsighted when it comes to road construction. They often underbuilt roads and have to spend a whole bunch more money later to expand it. The 3 to 2 to 3 lane Stoney at various sections is just mind boggling. I don't understand the logic.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by lazypucker

They often underbuilt roads and have to spend a whole bunch more money later to expand it. The 3 to 2 to 3 lane Stoney at various sections is just mind boggling. I don't understand the logic.

Is it really a whole bunch more? They pre-graded the widening when they built the road, so all they have to do is scrape off the topsoil and put down the asphalt. They'll have to move some small signs around and revise the big green ones, but otherwise everything else should be good to go. I'd love to know why they haven't done it in the NE area yet.

[lazypucker]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

Is it really a whole bunch more? They pre-graded the widening when they built the road, so all they have to do is scrape off the topsoil and put down the asphalt. They'll have to move some small signs around and revise the big green ones, but otherwise everything else should be good to go. I'd love to know why they haven't done it in the NE area yet.

How much does it cost to build another bridge to add more lanes on the portion by Bowness Park?

[timun]

Originally Posted by lazypucker

How much does it cost to build another bridge to add more lanes on the portion by Bowness Park?

$89 million

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by lazypucker

How much does it cost to build another bridge to add more lanes on the portion by Bowness Park?

I'm referring to the newer portions built since 2000. That first bridge over the Bow River was built way before the rest of the road was sorted out.

[lazypucker]

I am just saying how much more money it would cost to build enough lanes at the first place compared to adding new infrastructure right now to accomplish the same task...

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

Is it really a whole bunch more? They pre-graded the widening when they built the road, so all they have to do is scrape off the topsoil and put down the asphalt. They'll have to move some small signs around and revise the big green ones, but otherwise everything else should be good to go. I'd love to know why they haven't done it in the NE area yet.

There's been traffic jams on Stoney between 17ave SE and 16th Ave NE every single day since it opened because it narrows to two lanes.

Why go through all the trouble of building a freeway, then engineer a bottleneck so you can expand it in the future.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by lazypucker

I am just saying how much more money it would cost to build enough lanes at the first place compared to adding new infrastructure right now to accomplish the same task...

The original Bow River bridge for Stoney was built 24 years ago. It went about 15-20 years before needing the twinning of the bridge. That's 15-20 years of extra maintenance and lifespan costs essentially wasted because you want capacity for demand that wasn't present at the time.

When it comes to the chronic slowdowns, the NE section of Stoney only was decent until the SE opened. Should that have been three lanes in each direction right away? Probably. Obviously their predictions for growth were off, and I suspect the timing of the SE section being unknown at the time played a role in that. The NE section is ready for widening, so they just need to actually go do it. I don't know why they haven't yet!