2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Vasilevski?
Lehner?
Markstrom?
Price?
Rask?
Gibson?
Carter Hart?

All pretty predictable imo. All were top prospects, all were developed over time, and all are now top goalies. Lehner and markstrom have both been available in the recent past. The rest have stayed with their teams since drafted.

Perhaps we should be gunning for askarov

Rask was drafted by Toronto
Hart is early but looking good
Your post highlights how few true long term numbers ones there are

[timbit]

Originally Posted by New Era

And your thoughts Mr. Bit?

And yours?

[Sandman]

Sweden, Finland, and Russia.

That's where you go to get a goalie, lol

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Vasilevski?
Lehner?
Markstrom?
Price?
Rask?
Gibson?
Carter Hart?

All pretty predictable imo. All were top prospects, all were developed over time, and all are now top goalies. Lehner and markstrom have both been available in the recent past. The rest have stayed with their teams since drafted.

Perhaps we should be gunning for askarov

Well Vasilevski was the top goalie picked in 14, and the next was Subban (yuck).
Markstrom sure wasn’t obvious. A second rounder with two goalie picked ahead of him and who hadn’t shown much when traded by Florida and even in Bahia first couple years in Vancouver.
Price was a #5 pick 15 years ago and no goalie has gone anywhere near that high since.
Rask was not obvious enough for Toronto. LOL
Gibson was well regarded, though the second goalie picked.
Hart, well, we’ll see. Looks good so far.

Bottom line though, you can draft one high and hope. But look at Gibson’s draft year: he’s the only one to have made an impact until Binnington came along suddenly.

Are you telling me Calgary should have drafted those guys and didn’t?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by timbit

And yours?

Johnny Hockey lacks courage when the games get physical. That isn't something you can teach. Intestinal fortitude only comes from within. Because of that I would be inclined to move him, especially if they can find another forward in free agency to fill in the top six. If the Flames can snag Hall or Toffoli, then you deal Gaudreau and try to address the issues of a young center with potential and a top four defenseman. I think this is doable and it makes the team better now, and in the future.

I don't move Monahan, regardless of what people thought of his play this season. He's still the Flames best center by a huge margin, is coachable, and is willing to do whatever it takes. Plus, you don't move a player until you have something to back fill that position. The centers available in free agency can't fill Monhan's role, so moving him right now would be a mistake.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by New Era

Johnny Hockey lacks courage when the games get physical. That isn't something you can teach. Intestinal fortitude only comes from within. Because of that I would be inclined to move him, especially if they can find another forward in free agency to fill in the top six. If the Flames can snag Hall or Toffoli, then you deal Gaudreau and try to address the issues of a young center with potential and a top four defenseman. I think this is doable and it makes the team better now, and in the future.

I don't move Monahan, regardless of what people thought of his play this season. He's still the Flames best center by a huge margin, is coachable, and is willing to do whatever it takes. Plus, you don't move a player until you have something to back fill that position. The centers available in free agency can't fill Monhan's role, so moving him right now would be a mistake.

Agreed. Why are so many people leery of calling a spade...a spade?

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by New Era

Johnny Hockey lacks courage when the games get physical. That isn't something you can teach. Intestinal fortitude only comes from within. Because of that I would be inclined to move him, especially if they can find another forward in free agency to fill in the top six. If the Flames can snag Hall or Toffoli, then you deal Gaudreau and try to address the issues of a young center with potential and a top four defenseman. I think this is doable and it makes the team better now, and in the future.

I don't move Monahan, regardless of what people thought of his play this season. He's still the Flames best center by a huge margin, is coachable, and is willing to do whatever it takes. Plus, you don't move a player until you have something to back fill that position. The centers available in free agency can't fill Monhan's role, so moving him right now would be a mistake.

You had me right up until you said Monahan was “willing to do whatever it takes”. Yikes. That couldn’t be more wrong. When the going gets tough I see Monahan whither away. Sure he hit a little bit more this playoffs, but he absolutely steadfast refuses to play true playoff hockey and that is precisely part of line 1’s main issue.

After a whistle scrum you’ll see Monahan wander up close to another player and stand there to pretend like he’s interested in protecting teammates but not actually do anything. Every. Time. You ever see him block shots? You ever see that intestinal fortitude you think Gaudreau lacks? They both severely lack it. Monahan is the most overrated player on this site in years. He has a tremendous shot and can get the puck up at ungodly angles... and that’s... that’s about it. To win a cup you need way, way, way, way, way more from your #1 C.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Vasilevski?
Lehner?
Markstrom?
Price?
Rask?
Gibson?
Carter Hart?

Just for fun, here's a list of top goalie prospects in 2015 from some website I've never heard from: https://ingoalmag.com/features/top-5...5-2016-season/



Hellebuyck; very good, but consistency issues.
Subban - career backup/3rd stringer
Samsonov - heir apparent
Comrie - depth guy
Murray - 2 cups and then blah
Saros - good but not elite
Husso - finally getting a chance next year with the Allen trade
Fucale - nothing
McIntyre - nothing


Gillies - nothing

[Braden]

I think all this OEL talk got way blown out of the water, today Pat asked Friedman why Calgary was a thought for OEL and he said uhh cause Brad knows him, and umm cause with all the UFA's the backend might look different and then immediately changes his tune to Kuemper because it didnt sound like he had a whole lot of anything with actual meaning.

[dammage79]

Only thing ARZ has that makes sense is Hall, and apparently we can get him for zero acquisition cost. So why waste assets on their goalies or super overpriced captain?

Thing is with cap hell, the only solution is young cost controlled cheap talent, ya know, the kind you get at the draft.

I swear to the gods that if they derp this up and deal high picks this year, I might just turn in my fan card. Seriously over watching the Flames waste away paying way too much for.other teams players. Decade after decade.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

You had me right up until you said Monahan was “willing to do whatever it takes”. Yikes. That couldn’t be more wrong. When the going gets tough I see Monahan whither away. Sure he hit a little bit more this playoffs, but he absolutely steadfast refuses to play true playoff hockey and that is precisely part of line 1’s main issue.

After a whistle scrum you’ll see Monahan wander up close to another player and stand there to pretend like he’s interested in protecting teammates but not actually do anything. Every. Time. You ever see him block shots? You ever see that intestinal fortitude you think Gaudreau lacks? They both severely lack it. Monahan is the most overrated player on this site in years. He has a tremendous shot and can get the puck up at ungodly angles... and that’s... that’s about it. To win a cup you need way, way, way, way, way more from your #1 C.

Monahan goes to areas that Johnny will not. He will take a hit to make a play. Whistle to whistle is what counts.

Yes, I have seen him block shots and be there for his teammates.

He shows leadership....and never have I seen him whine.

[ForeverFlameFan]

It would be interesting to have a poll to see who would pick Gaudreau or Monahan's side IF one of these two guys had to be dealt.

[bax]

Originally Posted by New Era

Johnny Hockey lacks courage when the games get physical. That isn't something you can teach. Intestinal fortitude only comes from within. Because of that I would be inclined to move him, especially if they can find another forward in free agency to fill in the top six. If the Flames can snag Hall or Toffoli, then you deal Gaudreau and try to address the issues of a young center with potential and a top four defenseman. I think this is doable and it makes the team better now, and in the future.

I don't move Monahan, regardless of what people thought of his play this season. He's still the Flames best center by a huge margin, is coachable, and is willing to do whatever it takes. Plus, you don't move a player until you have something to back fill that position. The centers available in free agency can't fill Monhan's role, so moving him right now would be a mistake.

Originally Posted by New Era

Johnny Hockey lacks courage when the games get physical. That isn't something you can teach. Intestinal fortitude only comes from within. Because of that I would be inclined to move him, especially if they can find another forward in free agency to fill in the top six. If the Flames can snag Hall or Toffoli, then you deal Gaudreau and try to address the issues of a young center with potential and a top four defenseman. I think this is doable and it makes the team better now, and in the future.

I don't move Monahan, regardless of what people thought of his play this season. He's still the Flames best center by a huge margin, is coachable, and is willing to do whatever it takes. Plus, you don't move a player until you have something to back fill that position. The centers available in free agency can't fill Monhan's role, so moving him right now would be a mistake.

I don’t know. Johnny hasn’t performed to the best of his ability in the playoffs, but I don’t think it’s fair to start judging things like courage and intestinal fortitude from watching from the couch at home

And Toffoli can’t come close to replacing what Gaudreau brings.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by timbit

Agreed. Why are so many people leery of calling a spade...a spade?

I blame it on sensitivity training.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Only thing ARZ has that makes sense is Hall, and apparently we can get him for zero acquisition cost. So why waste assets on their goalies or super overpriced captain?

Thing is with cap hell, the only solution is young cost controlled cheap talent, ya know, the kind you get at the draft.

I swear to the gods that if they derp this up and deal high picks this year, I might just turn in my fan card. Seriously over watching the Flames waste away paying way too much for.other teams players. Decade after decade.

Feel your pain. To be fair and balanced, there have been deals that treliving has been in on but haven’t consummated for whatever reason (kadri, zucker that we know of). The problem is that the approach doesn’t change. Swing for the fences on trades, make a splash in free agency, etc. when you have a team that is on most players no trade lists, you will strike out a few times despite your best intentions.

He keeps going to the well time after time. Don’t waste time trying to get players that have Calgary on ntc. Try to get good young players who have tremendous upside. Yes, harder to consummate deals like this but lack of trade protection means a higher certainty of the trade Going through, vs one with Calgary on a players ntc.

You will have impatient owners wanting quick fixes and that presents an opportunity to get some good young players. If you have to go down the Al Coates model (something for now, something for later) you may end up with a player who can set the franchise up for years to come.

The issue appears to be the lack of support from ownership to suffer any pain and just make the playoffs year after year. So we may have one of those impatient owners who won’t support moves like these. Treliving May be gming for his job which is when big mistakes can happen. Compounding the issue this year is an upcoming expansion draft which may make gms gunshy on moving young players or picks out that are protected. I’m hopeful change will come, but I have doubts the right change will come and draft picks will be surrendered for Player that provide immediate gratification and upgrades to the roster. It’s a young mans game and good teams have young players driving the play. We are short on those with all the trades and I’m concerned the first will be used again to provide an immediate upgrade to the team. I hope I’m wrong.

[Husky]

Gaudreau and flames 1st for Domi, Dandenault and higher 1st

Trade backlund for future picks

Trade ryan for whatever

Use futures plus kylington for Kyle Palmieri.

Sign Hall, Forbort

Hall - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkatchuk - Domi - Palmeri
Bennett - Dandenault - magipane
Lucic - dube - someone

[Flash Walken]

Serious question:

Was Rittich actually an astute pickup or is he a replacement or slightly above replacement level backup?

I know browna has some opinions on Rittich...

I don't know how to really compare or judge goalies, but a .908 save percentage doesn't necessarily scream much to me? Alex Stalock just put up a .910 sv% over 38 games this year and cost the wild 750k x 3.

Goals saved above average or expected seems to be on par with Malcolm Subban, Louis Domingue, Peter Budaj etc...

37th highest paid goalie in the league.

Is it really astute to find a goalie in Europe who can put up a .908sv% ?

Cam Talbot had the same acquisition cost, was that also very astute or just the regular motions of getting free agent goaltending?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by bax

And Toffoli can’t come close to replacing what Gaudreau brings.

That is true, but you'd be looking for the sum of the parts of what was returned from Gaudreau in a trade as well. I'll take a guy who shows up in phsyical games at this point, because Johnny is pretty much useless in those games. That means post-All Star break, Johnny's game goes down the tubes and he becomes a liability. I'll take Toffoli and the two players we get for Gaudreau over a MIA Johnny Hockey in the post-season. I believe the Flames go further with those other players in the lineup.

[blender]

Originally Posted by Husky

Gaudreau and flames 1st for Domi, Dandenault and higher 1st

Trade backlund for future picks

Trade ryan for whatever

Use futures plus kylington for Kyle Palmieri.

Sign Hall, Forbort

Hall - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkatchuk - Domi - Palmeri
Bennett - Dandenault - magipane
Lucic - dube - someone

Centre depth is way worse than now.
Keep Backlund and you might have something.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by timbit

Monahan goes to areas that Johnny will not. He will take a hit to make a play. Whistle to whistle is what counts.

Yes, I have seen him block shots and be there for his teammates.

He shows leadership....and never have I seen him whine.

I can agree with the whining comment but the rest of it is suspect at best. And not whining is an extremely low bar. If I promise to not whine and block shots I’d gladly play in the NHL too.