2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I hope that you're both right.

My guess is 9.5M for 7 years. I doubt Hall will sign, what is likely his last big pay day, for anything less than seven years. The fact that he is the best forward, and maybe the only star forward UFA will inflate his value to the point where he will barely be affordable.

Hall has said in an interview that contracts likely will be worse since Covid but thats ok we make lots as NHL players. He also said winning is more important.

Because Hall was a first overall pick and got a great 2nd contract he's made about $45 million. Imo guys like him are more likely to sign for less to win because he's already had a big payday. 7 years at $8 mil puts him over $100 million in career earnings. He might want more but he may be sick of missing the playoffs every year too

Tavares took less to sign with the leafs. Rumors were sharks offered 13 million a year. Tavares took less but Rumors were that Dubas couldn't move Matthews Nylander or Marner. I wonder if Hall takes less he says the same thing? Hall take 8 for 7vyears but you can't turn around and trade Johnny or tkachuk or Monahan or lindholm cause these guys are why I want to be here?

If that's the case I'd be on board to look at moving Ryan and Mangipane depending on his demands. Tough to keep everyone and if you add Hall and you like the Bennett line as is. Mangipane may be the odd man out.

Mangipane to Nyi for Mayfield and 3rd
Ryan for 4th?

[bax]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

No way to I trade for Cozens just to screw his development up by putting him on the wing.

Gaudreau - Cozens - Lindholm.

I think that varies by player. Didn’t work for Bennett, but plenty of centers break into the NHL on the wing and then make the switch to center.

Regardless it was just an example.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I hope the Flames sign Hall. I'd happily see 7 years and 8M AAV. With a lot of the actual cash being paid out in years 1-5. Even toss in a NMC to get him to sign here.

I suspect that's what its going to take as well. At that point it is going to be whether Hall views this team as competitive or not. If you remove Gaudreau, I think he can still be convinced so long as the return is not for futures. If it's a trade for futures you are removing a key component to the competitiveness of the team, so he may balk at it. If you weaken the center ranks in any shape or fashion I think you scare off any of the top free agents. Moving Monahan means you are working with 3rd tier centers and that won't be overly appealing to a UFA who wants to win.

and I'd also love to see them snag Pietraneglo and Markstrom. This off-season has two top tier free agents and then a whole bunch of middle tier rubbish.

Yeah, that isn't happening, so it isn't even worth discussing. You know, this thing called the salary cap an all.

Stay out of the middle tier. Hall, Pietraneglo, Markstrom - or bow out of free agency all together.

I disagree with this. In fact, I'm almost more inclined to sniff around the middle tier guys first and see where expectations are for all these players. There are some good guys there, some that outscored Hall handily last season, and could be had at a discount to the dollars Hall would be demanding. If the middle guys get squeezed because of the cap, you're likely better off getting in on a player like Toffoli at $5x6 than Hall at $8x7. Means you can afford another player or account for the sink hole that is Lucic's cap hit. With the static cap, money puck comes into play more than ever, and you have to squeeze every cent possible.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by New Era

I disagree with this. In fact, I'm almost more inclined to sniff around the middle tier guys first and see where expectations are for all these players. There are some good guys there, some that outscored Hall handily last season, and could be had at a discount to the dollars Hall would be demanding. If the middle guys get squeezed because of the cap, you're likely better off getting in on a player like Toffoli at $5x6 than Hall at $8x7. Means you can afford another player or account for the sink hole that is Lucic's cap hit. With the static cap, money puck comes into play more than ever, and you have to squeeze every cent possible.

1. I think Toffoli is looking for 5.5-6, given he was ppg after the vancouver trade.
2. If the difference between Toffoli and hall is between 2-3 mil a season, it would be a huge, huge mistake to go with Toffoli given their production over their careers. 2-3 million is not going to sign a player that should be playing in our bottom 6 over any of our prospects.

[1qqaaz]

Toffoli is still top-tier IMO.

I'd rather give Hall 8 than Toffoli 6 though. Depending on the term.

[Icon]

I'm a fan of the proposed Monahan & 19th for Cozens & 8th... but what I've been trying to decide is if Buffalo would do it.

If we're thinking that's a good move because it gives us a higher pick, and cap room, and maybe Cozens forecasts better than Monahan in a few years... then what's the reason Buffalo would do that trade? A better center for them for the next couple years, costing them more money and a lesser pick? If Cozens is going to be good enough for us to throw him in lineups as a #2C next year, why wouldn't Buffalo just do the same?

I feel like we might have to sweeten the deal for them to have interest.

[Jiggy]

Talking to some people I know in the Flames organization and others around the league it doesn't seem like there will be a lot of big money contracts handed out this year. UFA's will have to adjust their expectations. There is a lot of uncertainty right now with when the 2020-2021 season will start, and a lot of worried owners about how many fans will be able to attend games.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Icon

I'm a fan of the proposed Monahan & 19th for Cozens & 8th... but what I've been trying to decide is if Buffalo would do it.

If we're thinking that's a good move because it gives us a higher pick, and cap room, and maybe Cozens forecasts better than Monahan in a few years... then what's the reason Buffalo would do that trade? A better center for them for the next couple years, costing them more money and a lesser pick? If Cozens is going to be good enough for us to throw him in lineups as a #2C next year, why wouldn't Buffalo just do the same?

I feel like we might have to sweeten the deal for them to have interest.

Cozens could also absolutely bust and Eichel is getting annoyed. Most prospects end up busting or being disappointments. I am not a huge fan of moving Monahan because of that.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Icon

I'm a fan of the proposed Monahan & 19th for Cozens & 8th... but what I've been trying to decide is if Buffalo would do it.

If we're thinking that's a good move because it gives us a higher pick, and cap room, and maybe Cozens forecasts better than Monahan in a few years... then what's the reason Buffalo would do that trade? A better center for them for the next couple years, costing them more money and a lesser pick? If Cozens is going to be good enough for us to throw him in lineups as a #2C next year, why wouldn't Buffalo just do the same?

I feel like we might have to sweeten the deal for them to have interest.

Prospect development and transition to the NHL is not linear or guaranteed. Schenn is a good example, as he was also a the #1 NHL prospect prior to his trade to philly.
It took him 3 full NHL seasons to get to playing centre at a 40 point pace, 6 full seasons to take that next step into a 60 pt player.

No guarantee at all that Cozens can even step in next season.

Monahan is essentially a guarantee to step in and put up at least 50 points next season.

That's the value for Buffalo.

[Icon]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

No guarantee at all that Cozens can even step in next season.

Monahan is essentially a guarantee to step in and put up at least 50 points next season.

That's the value for Buffalo.

Fair point.

On the flip side then I don't think we should be penciling Cozens in on the 2nd line in lineups for next year


I absolutely think the Flames should pursue a trade like this one, was just playing devils' advocate / trying to see the other side.

[Flash Walken]

Why do the flames trade Monahan for picks and prospects?

Are the flames entering a rebuild period? Not trying to make the playoffs next year?

Without getting a player back who plays 17-22 minutes a night, I don't see why the flames are dealing Monahan.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Why do the flames trade Monahan for picks and prospects?

Are the flames entering a rebuild period? Not trying to make the playoffs next year?

Without getting a player back who plays 17-22 minutes a night, I don't see why the flames are dealing Monahan.

Bennett is our #1C now don't you know

[Roof-Daddy]

Cozens won't be playing 2nd line on any NHL team next season.

If/when the WHL season gets started, odds are pretty good that is where he ends up. It's either NHL or bust for him, and with all the missed time now he'd be much better off getting back into the swing of game action by dominating juniors in a shortened season.

[Dragomir]

I’d rather deal Johnny + 19 + other asset for Cozens + 8

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Dragomir

I’d rather deal Johnny + 19 + other asset for Cozens + 8

Agreed. We can’t trade our number one center. But I am all for trading Johnny for some futures. Look to the UFA market to replace him. Promote from within as well.

I am also not trading Mangi, assuming we can sign him to a reasonable number.

Bit of a retool, but be competitive enough to make playoffs.

[FlamesAddiction]

Personally, I would be disappointed if any trade involving Gaudreau didn't have at least one established player coming back.

If the two mystery boxes (Cozens and a draft pick) don't pan out, I would at least want something to show for it, even if it was 2nd pairing defenseman or middle 6 forward.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Personally, I would be disappointed if any trade involving Gaudreau didn't have at least one established player coming back.

If the two mystery boxes (Cozens and a draft pick) don't pan out, I would at least want something to show for it, even if it was 2nd pairing defenseman or middle 6 forward.

Yeah we need at least a Stajan level return here...

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Why do the flames trade Monahan for picks and prospects?

Are the flames entering a rebuild period? Not trying to make the playoffs next year?

Without getting a player back who plays 17-22 minutes a night, I don't see why the flames are dealing Monahan.

Because, there seems to be a feeling that Mohanan isn't a good enough C to be the top C of a successful playoff team. Getting a C of that caliber is not something that is typically available via trade or through free agency. As such, the most optimal way for this organization to figure out that piece that has been missing in the organization for ~25 years, would be to take their chances on other team's higher probability prospects, and/or higher probability draft picks.

Maybe I'm wrong here, but with an aging Giordano, equivalent goaltending, and question marks on the top end forwards on the team, unless there's some magic bullet out there, my guess is the flames are at best as good as this year's team, but there's a high probability we could see a greater drop off if monahan/gaudreau trades occur (likely resulting in a drop off in their positional replacements at least for next season's roster), if Giordano continues to fade in level of play, etc.

Could Bennett suddenly thrust himself into a true top 6 C? Could Dube evolve into a top 6 winger with consistent point production? Could Valimaki/Andersson's growth offset Giordano's downward trajectory? Absolutely, however, i would definitely not bank on that.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Why do the flames trade Monahan for picks and prospects?

Are the flames entering a rebuild period? Not trying to make the playoffs next year?

Without getting a player back who plays 17-22 minutes a night, I don't see why the flames are dealing Monahan.

Tampa Bay traded St. Louis while competing - which may be more closely relatable to the Flames and Giordano, but you can't view windows as small enclosed periods of time. It's about consistently smart asset management and team development - trading Monahan for futures isn't a declaration that this team's short term is all about rebuilding.

If we are having the conversation about keeping Johnny or Sean - Johnny is the better player, hands down. Monahan just isn't a play driving centre, he's just a nice support piece. Yes, some positions are more important than others but blindly making those choices leads to bad trades. Edmonton did it when they traded a winger for a defenceman 1 for 1.

[Monahammer]

I agree with the sentiment, and would much rather trade Johnny than Monahan. But if Cozens is the main target, Buffalo is reportedly looking for another centre and not a winger, no matter how talented. They have Olofsson and Skinner locked in at LW, and Sam Reinhart on RW.