Should/Will the Flames keep Ward

[Freeway]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

In his last contract negotiations we were led to believe that he required more final say over hockey decisions. So having someone come over the top is unlikely.

I think the notion that BT isn't going to be calling the shots here for the next year (at minimum) is wishful thinking for some. There has been zero suggestion or buzz that a change is even being considered.

I'm not sure how likely it is, but it would be cool if at the end of his current contract Treliving gets promoted to President of Hockey Ops and someone like Craig Conroy gets promoted to GM.

[Purpdust]

If the COVID thing is that dire for the NHL, why not just leave Ward as interim and save the team money until this thing has stabilized. I can't see this Owners group spending money with so much uncertainty.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

In his last contract negotiations we were led to believe that he required more final say over hockey decisions. So having someone come over the top is unlikely.

I think the notion that BT isn't going to be calling the shots here for the next year (at minimum) is wishful thinking for some. There has been zero suggestion or buzz that a change is even being considered.

While I agree it’s very unlikely, I can’t imagine the Flames would have negotiated away the right to make hiring decisions within their organization above Treliving.

Was it ever determined where the rumors that Treliving wanted more autonomy were coming from? The organization hasn’t always been as leaky. Think back to the Keenan hire or Feaster firing. Those were abrupt.

I agree with your premise but I also think it’s unlikely that ownership is that happy right now. And the rumored Neal buyout he wanted could not possibly have won him support.

[mile]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I don't know, the fact that no reports have surfaced of anyone interviewing for the Flames worries me. Whenever a team interviews for a head coach it always leaks who they interviewed or at least the process is happening, look at the Capitals right now. The fact we have heard nothing scares me into thinking Ward is going to get the gig.

That does worry me but maybe the reason why there's been no leaks is because the Caps have a vacant spot, and the Flames still have Ward as the interim? Ward might be BT's plan B (or C) and BT might've put an emphasis on keeping things quiet in the case that Ward does remain HC .



Also, these coaches who are looking for jobs right now know what it's like to be on the hot seat and have people speculate over their future. It could be that they aren't leaking any contact with Calgary out of respect to Ward (who is probably well-respected around the league) if he is waiting for news too. They don't have to really worry about that with the Caps.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

While I agree it’s very unlikely, I can’t imagine the Flames would have negotiated away the right to make hiring decisions within their organization above Treliving.

Was it ever determined where the rumors that Treliving wanted more autonomy were coming from? The organization hasn’t always been as leaky. Think back to the Keenan hire or Feaster firing. Those were abrupt.

I agree with your premise but I also think it’s unlikely that ownership is that happy right now. And the rumored Neal buyout he wanted could not possibly have won him support.

This isn't proof of anything, but found a reddit post that came from the time period.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CalgaryFlam...relivings_new/

All tweets in order

Calgary misses out on Ben Bishop for third time, via source. #Flames had deal in place at draft but Bishop contract demands too steep (7x7).

Source also said #Flames made move for Bishop at trade deadline (similar to #Kings package), but fell through awaiting Ken King's approval.

According to source, Brad Treliving needed Ken King's approval on all trades/transactions. King in air transit. Steve Yzerman couldn't wait.

As story goes, Yzerman told Treliving he had similar offer from #Kings, needed #Flames to sign off in 15 mins, Treliving couldn't reach King

But I see @JSportsnet says #Flames were on Bishop's no-trade list, which conflicts with source saying Calgary had deal in place at deadline.

Nevertheless, #Flames circled back on Bishop but #Stars won out — presumably based on Bishop's preference, offer would have been same again.

Big condition in Brad Treliving's new contract/re-signing with #Flames was full autonomy, meaning he can now make moves without King consent

Not sure how much of that #Flames info was already public knowledge or "out there" amongst those in know in Calgary. Source said no secret.

https://twitter.com/user/status/862068797460496384

[Strange Brew]

Thanks Bingo. I hadn’t seen that stuff before. I would say that if Flames ownership has questions about BT, hiring someone over the top of him would be a possible solution and that they wouldn’t have negotiated away that right. That’s an expensive solution though and since he’s no longer a novice GM, likely not realistic. I do stand by my speculation that BT hurt himself if in fact he asked for a Neal buyout.

Now I would say promoting both BT and Conroy would be a very strange idea. That’s something you do when you’ve achieved an abundance of success.

[GioforPM]

"Bishop contract demands too steep (7x7)."

Well, I agree that's too steep.

It is pretty confusing around the NTC list as well.

[Canada 02]

Mark Recchi was hired to be Lindy Ruff's assistant in New Jersey.
Too bad. If Ward returns, Recchi would have been a good choice as an assistant, assuming Ray Edwards returned to his player development role

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Thanks Bingo. I hadn’t seen that stuff before. I would say that if Flames ownership has questions about BT, hiring someone over the top of him would be a possible solution and that they wouldn’t have negotiated away that right. That’s an expensive solution though and since he’s no longer a novice GM, likely not realistic. I do stand by my speculation that BT hurt himself if in fact he asked for a Neal buyout.

Now I would say promoting both BT and Conroy would be a very strange idea. That’s something you do when you’ve achieved an abundance of success.

For me if you have to hire someone over the top, because you have questions about your GM, then you don't have the right GM.
Unless you are re-defining the role, as it relates to president of hockey ops, or something like that. Which some teams have done.
But it comes down to BT being the guy making the hockey decisions. If you can't give him that - he's not the right guy and he's probably not going to accept less autonomy.

[dammage79]

Is Bean not the oversight guy? I thought he was the numbers guy before he become CEO. Pretty sure thats all the oversight tree needs.

[Enoch Root]

Maloney is there as a sounding board as well

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Maloney is there as a sounding board as well

Personally I dont like Maloney in CGY. Just seems like the guys waiting to take over and do the ting he did to the Yotes.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Yeah I'm all for surrounding yourself with other smart people to help you make the best decision. And when you see Neal signed (though I liked it at the time) you have to wonder if there is a gap in that group, or the process whereby the information is reviewed and discussed.
But that's different, to me, than having someone over the top that has to approve BT's moves.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Is Bean not the oversight guy? I thought he was the numbers guy before he become CEO. Pretty sure thats all the oversight tree needs.

As best I know, Bean is more of a business guy - and managing that part of the operation. I don't think his role is to play any role in hockey decisions, apart from how it impacts the budget.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

For me if you have to hire someone over the top, because you have questions about your GM, then you don't have the right GM.
Unless you are re-defining the role, as it relates to president of hockey ops, or something like that. Which some teams have done.
But it comes down to BT being the guy making the hockey decisions. If you can't give him that - he's not the right guy and he's probably not going to accept less autonomy.

Well that’s my point. A President of Hockey Ops to oversee Treliving and the rest of hockey operations. I don’t know if it redefines any role per se, and it’s certainly a shot across the bow for the GM. If he doesn’t want to accept less autonomy, well he has options. Dubas seems to be the guy making trades in Toronto but I’m pretty sure Shanahan not just in charge of the accounting department.

I

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Well that’s my point. A President of Hockey Ops to oversee Treliving and the rest of hockey operations. I don’t know if it redefines any role per se, and it’s certainly a shot across the bow for the GM. If he doesn’t want to accept less autonomy, well he has options. Dubas seems to be the guy making trades in Toronto but I’m pretty sure Shanahan not just in charge of the accounting department.



I

Shanahan was insralled as the President of Hockey Ops well before Dubas had arrived; he has always been his boss. His position is the same as Burke's was in Calgary, and I have no doubt that Treliving would accept the reinstitution of another such officer as a huge slight and a likely embarrassment. I would expect him to resign if this happened.

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[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Shanahan was insralled as the President of Hockey Ops well before Dubas had arrived; he has always been his boss. His position is the same as Burke's was in Calgary, and I have no doubt that Treliving would accept the reinstitution of another such officer as a huge slight and a likely embarrassment. I would expect him to resign if this happened.

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Correct. See Greg Sherman as an example though he didn’t resign he became a gm in title only
I feel there is another example but it escapes me

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Shanahan was insralled as the President of Hockey Ops well before Dubas had arrived; he has always been his boss. His position is the same as Burke's was in Calgary, and I have no doubt that Treliving would accept the reinstitution of another such officer as a huge slight and a likely embarrassment. I would expect him to resign if this happened.

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I would expect the same.

The owners could have fired Feaster too. Why didn’t they?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I would expect the same.



The owners could have fired Feaster too. Why didn’t they?

The situation with Feaster feels completely different to me. I think the plan was always that he would be a temporary measure to oversee the very unpopular trade of the team's best ever player and the roster-stripping in preparation for a rebuild.

Treliving has already earned two extensions, an increase in the power of his own position, and he is reportedly popular with and trusted by ownership. He is not getting fired this off season; nor will he be reduced to a lame-duck.

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[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Correct. See Greg Sherman as an example though he didn’t resign he became a gm in title only
I feel there is another example but it escapes me

I thought there were lots of POHO’s in the league now. I wonder if all of them got to pick their first GM. Maybe yes for the most part.