Right. But as pointed out a few times in this thread, the NHL is in an unfortunate situation where whatever action they take will be criticised. If they follow tbey lead of otber Lsagues their actions are disingenuous. If they continue with games as usual their inaction is construed as callous and tone-deaf.
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Right. But as pointed out a few times in this thread, the NHL is in an unfortunate situation where whatever action they take will be criticised. If they follow the lead of other Leagues their actions are disingenuous. If they continue with games as usual their inaction is construed as callous and tone-deaf.
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I completely agree. And you just summed up the entire predicament many people in the US are faced with on the subject of racism. It seems that in today’s political climate, if you say nothing, you don’t care. If you say something, you are disingenuous.
IMO the NHL handled the situation as well as can be expected. I was skeptical but I don't feel they came across as disingenuous. Young people are very impressionable and if their athlete heroes show that they care about an issue that helps make a difference in the long run.
I hope these same young people in Canada aren't being told this is an American problem. There are acute issues in the US and the treatment of blacks by the police is only one of the most visible and painful to watch. But racial bias and systemic favoring of the ruling class is largely a human problem. I lived in Calgary long enough to see this. My Dad was a police officer and the racial makeup of the people he came in contact with was strikingly different than the circle I lived in.
BBF - Maybe we don't necessarily have to choose between saying nothing and saying something. We can listen and focus on our actual behaviors and if nothing else, try to model the attitudes that we believe are needed.
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I completely agree. And you just summed up the entire predicament many people in the US are faced with on the subject of racism. It seems that in today’s political climate, if you say nothing, you don’t care. If you say something, you are disingenuous.
That being the case, why were you so quick to label the NHL as disingenuous?
They had to decide one way or the other, so judge the decision as right or wrong (right, IMO). But calling it disingenuous seems, well, somewhat disingenuous to me.
IMO the NHL handled the situation as well as can be expected. I was skeptical but I don't feel they came across as disingenuous. Young people are very impressionable and if their athlete heroes show that they care about an issue that helps make a difference in the long run.
I hope these same young people in Canada aren't being told this is an American problem. There are acute issues in the US and the treatment of blacks by the police is only one of the most visible and painful to watch. But racial bias and systemic favoring of the ruling class is largely a human problem. I lived in Calgary long enough to see this. My Dad was a police officer and the racial makeup of the people he came in contact with was strikingly different than the circle I lived in.
BBF - Maybe we don't necessarily have to choose between saying nothing and saying something. We can listen and focus on our actual behaviors and if nothing else, try to model the attitudes that we believe are needed.
The only thing that upsets me is the backlash from fans.
Several Rider players have expressed doubts about returning after reading trash on FB and Twitter, although they later backtracked after a ton of support/responses.
I can’t imagine they are alone. Imagine being a Stamp player reading that Flames FB page. Ugh. I feel shame and embarrassment on behalf of all white people, Albertans, calgarians, NHL/CFL fans when I read that ####.
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That being the case, why were you so quick to label the NHL as disingenuous?
They had to decide one way or the other, so judge the decision as right or wrong (right, IMO). But calling it disingenuous seems, well, somewhat disingenuous to me.
If you read my entire first post, I comment on where I think the racial bias in the United States comes from. The very last thing I did was comment on my opinion.
I didn’t label the NHL as disingenuous. I said that my opinion was that the gesture of boycotting comes across as disingenuous, and if I were an African American I might feel like the NHL is patronizing me. It’s just my opinion.
To be honest, the reason I feel that way is because I remember something from my personal experiences that made me feel similar. I was sexually harassed years ago at a job to the point of not wanting to go to work. After months of putting up with it, I called HR and of course no one took my side, no one understood, and no one was punished for it. I was told to ‘stay home and ’‘play with my kids’ for a day and come back to work with a new attitude. I resented it Years later, when the#MeToo movement was starting to gain national attention, the company I worked for had a Local commercial that talked about how they had been non biased and hired women for years, and how women’s rights was their biggest concern. Every person I worked with there was male. The commercial made me sick, even though there were some new staff in place since I quit.
I wasn’t ‘quick to call the NHL disingenuous.’ I carefully thought about my opinion and made a very long, informative post about racial inequality, and explained why, if I were African American, I might find it disingenuous that an almost all-white sport would boycott their games in support of something they have no experience with. And, I said it could be thought of as a show of support. It’s my personal opinion that African Americans may have felt patronized by the gesture. That opinion stems from personal experience and I suppose a sort of empathy.
In no way am I attacking the NHL’s decision. I was just voicing an opinion. Hope that makes sense.
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I didn’t label the NHL as disingenuous. I said that my opinion was that the gesture of boycotting comes across as disingenuous, and if I were an African American I might feel like the NHL is patronizing me. It’s just my opinion.
Did you happen to catch the press conference by the players? Sure, these guys don’t speak for everyone. But this point was specifically mentioned.
Reeves: “I think if you look around this room, there are a lot of white athletes in here, and I think that’s the point being made.”
If you read my entire first post, I comment on where I think the racial bias in the United States comes from. The very last thing I did was comment on my opinion.
I didn’t label the NHL as disingenuous. I said that my opinion was that the gesture of boycotting comes across as disingenuous, and if I were an African American I might feel like the NHL is patronizing me. It’s just my opinion.
To be honest, the reason I feel that way is because I remember something from my personal experiences that made me feel similar. I was sexually harassed years ago at a job to the point of not wanting to go to work. After months of putting up with it, I called HR and of course no one took my side, no one understood, and no one was punished for it. I was told to ‘stay home and ’‘play with my kids’ for a day and come back to work with a new attitude. I resented it Years later, when the#MeToo movement was starting to gain national attention, the company I worked for had a Local commercial that talked about how they had been non biased and hired women for years, and how women’s rights was their biggest concern. Every person I worked with there was male. The commercial made me sick, even though there were some new staff in place since I quit.
I wasn’t ‘quick to call the NHL disingenuous.’ I carefully thought about my opinion and made a very long, informative post about racial inequality, and explained why, if I were African American, I might find it disingenuous that an almost all-white sport would boycott their games in support of something they have no experience with. And, I said it could be thought of as a show of support. It’s my personal opinion that African Americans may have felt patronized by the gesture. That opinion stems from personal experience and I suppose a sort of empathy.
In no way am I attacking the NHL’s decision. I was just voicing an opinion. Hope that makes sense.
First of all, I am sorry to hear about your personal experience. As a man, I can't understand, but I certainly empathize, and I have seen it all to often.
Second, I did read your post and appreciated the information.
I just thought that the comment at the end "Honestly, I think it's disingenuous" was a bit odd considering the rest of your post. And, well, somewhat disingenuous.
However, I also should have mentioned how much I appreciated the rest of your post. Also, it wasn't meant as an attack, I was just just having a little fun with your comment, but obviously you saw it a different way.
If you read my entire first post, I comment on where I think the racial bias in the United States comes from. The very last thing I did was comment on my opinion.
I didn’t label the NHL as disingenuous. I said that my opinion was that the gesture of boycotting comes across as disingenuous, and if I were an African American I might feel like the NHL is patronizing me. It’s just my opinion.
To be honest, the reason I feel that way is because I remember something from my personal experiences that made me feel similar. I was sexually harassed years ago at a job to the point of not wanting to go to work. After months of putting up with it, I called HR and of course no one took my side, no one understood, and no one was punished for it. I was told to ‘stay home and ’‘play with my kids’ for a day and come back to work with a new attitude. I resented it Years later, when the#MeToo movement was starting to gain national attention, the company I worked for had a Local commercial that talked about how they had been non biased and hired women for years, and how women’s rights was their biggest concern. Every person I worked with there was male. The commercial made me sick, even though there were some new staff in place since I quit.
I wasn’t ‘quick to call the NHL disingenuous.’ I carefully thought about my opinion and made a very long, informative post about racial inequality, and explained why, if I were African American, I might find it disingenuous that an almost all-white sport would boycott their games in support of something they have no experience with. And, I said it could be thought of as a show of support. It’s my personal opinion that African Americans may have felt patronized by the gesture. That opinion stems from personal experience and I suppose a sort of empathy.
In no way am I attacking the NHL’s decision. I was just voicing an opinion. Hope that makes sense.
For what it matter, this black man, is proud of the NHL players for stepping up and boycotting those games. One thing we have lacked in our fight for equality is rich white allies and let's be honest, it's rich white men that control most things in North America.
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First of all, I am sorry to hear about your personal experience. As a man, I can't understand, but I certainly empathize, and I have seen it all to often.
Second, I did read your post and appreciated the information.
I just thought that the comment at the end "Honestly, I think it's disingenuous" was a bit odd considering the rest of your post. And, well, somewhat disingenuous.
However, I also should have mentioned how much I appreciated the rest of your post. Also, it wasn't meant as an attack, I was just just having a little fun with your comment, but obviously you saw it a different way.
Oh, I didn’t think of it as an attack at all. When I posted originally I knew my point of view would not be the same as everyone else’s. I actually love participating in these kinds of debates and discussions and I was honestly just trying to explain my opinion.
These types of discussions are important and if done with rationale and reason, they can become a part of the solution. I find these dialogues productive, but only if they come from complete honesty. This is why I feel that doing something just because another organization does seems more like an obligation is not always the best reason.
I didn’t know there was a presser where the NHL discussed the possible perception that Black people might not appreciate the gesture, so I appreciate learning that and knowing it.
I won’t participate in a discussion on these boards without expecting people to disagree with me. I learn from the opinions of others and I hope there may learn or reflect from my opinions too.
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I understand where you are coming from, BigBrodieFan
I have another view that is pretty simple. There are probably a lot of people who may not watch or follow the news particularly closely, but do watch hockey. When they go to tune in, and there is no hockey, and they find out why, there has been an increase in awareness of the issue. Lots of people agreeing that the issue should take precedence over their game. That is not the whole story, but to me is enough to make it worthwhile.
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This has gone way off from anything to do with the NHL boycotting games and has become a race discussion. I have been camping and came to get info on the thread title subject but I am not wading through pages of debate that should be in the off topic forum. Would be nice if we could just stick to the NHL and not playing games here instead of having a detailed race debate.
What? That was the point of them boycotting tho. They had every single player from the western conference come out and stand together and specifically say. We are taking a break so people can the next gew days to focus on talking about this exact thing and hockey was just not important compared to this issue .
The whole point to not playing was to spark the debate exactly what has happened in this thread. This is exactly why leagues stopped playing.
What? That was the point of them boycotting tho. They had every single player from the western conference come out and stand together and specifically say. We are taking a break so people can the next gew days to focus on talking about this exact thing and hockey was just not important compared to this issue .
The whole point to not playing was to spark the debate exactly what has happened in this thread. This is exactly why leagues stopped playing.
This was the exact intentions of their actions .
Exactly. That is what I was looking for because it pertained to the thread. Not the racial debate that had nothing to with the NHL at all that started taking up page after page. I don't want to read what your personal views on racism is, I want to know what is going on with the NHL side of it. You know, what the thread is titled for?
Exactly. That is what I was looking for because it pertained to the thread. Not the racial debate that had nothing to with the NHL at all that started taking up page after page. I don't want to read what your personal views on racism is, I want to know what is going on with the NHL side of it. You know, what the thread is titled for?
But thats what the boycott was for? The racial debate..... The tone comes off very Laura Ingraham even if that's not your intent which I don't believe it is . The boycott and the thread did exactly what it should have done. The vast majority off posters wouldn't be engage in this debate if it was just in OT.
Last edited by combustiblefuel; 09-03-2020 at 03:04 PM.
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Exactly. That is what I was looking for because it pertained to the thread. Not the racial debate that had nothing to with the NHL at all that started taking up page after page. I don't want to read what your personal views on racism is, I want to know what is going on with the NHL side of it. You know, what the thread is titled for?
But how are you failing to grasp that the conversation and discussion contained within this thread, and generated by the NHL's actions for a good number of people who otherwise would not have participated is PRECISELY what the NHL was working toward in the first place?
In other words, this thread accomplishes exactly what the NHL play-break was intended to do.
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Exactly. That is what I was looking for because it pertained to the thread. Not the racial debate that had nothing to with the NHL at all that started taking up page after page. I don't want to read what your personal views on racism is, I want to know what is going on with the NHL side of it. You know, what the thread is titled for?
The racial debate is what their goal was by taking time off, so how can you say it has nothing to do with the NHL? That's like saying discussing the reasons behind a trade don't pertain to a thread about the trade.
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What are the chances the NFL (biggest league, predominantly black, Kapernick ect.) boycotts games? Any chance?
Kinda funny hockey takes the heat they did playing in Canada yet I highly doubt the NFL misses one game. Certainly not the opener in KC against Houston
What are the chances the NFL (biggest league, predominantly black, Kapernick ect.) boycotts games? Any chance?
Kinda funny hockey takes the heat they did playing in Canada yet I highly doubt the NFL misses one game. Certainly not the opener in KC against Houston
It's unlikely as there has not yet been another incident.
