WCSF - Vegas Golden Knights (1) vs. Vancouver Canucks (5)

[Barca]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I was trying to figure out where the guy came from because I couldn't remember anything about him in junior other than a vague recollection of a WJHC. Turns out it's because he was in college. This stat line from his last season is completely absurd.

2015-16 Boston College H-East 39GP 2A 4PIM 2362MIN 74GA 0EN 10SO 1.88GAA 27W 8L 4T 1067SV 0.935SV%

Canuck fans have been proclaiming him to be the next one even before Marky broke out.

It's not a surprise to us that he's dominating to be quite honest.

but like i said before, Ian Clark is one of, if not the best goaltending coach in the league, If Marky chases the money the Canucks don't sweat at all because it makes the cap situation easier for JB.

we still have Silovs and DiPietro in the system too.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The Flames have to figure out a way to trade for guys like Hughes, petterson and Demko.

Tre was in on Demko at the draft.

[jg13]

Did anyone hear Burke a couple days ago when he said the only reason they drafted Mason MacDonald over Demko was because Demko had surgery?

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The Flames have to figure out a way to trade for guys like Hughes, petterson and Demko.

2/3 are players that are drafted in the top 10. We don't draft in the top 10 very often.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Tre was in on Demko at the draft.

Canucks tricked us by selecting him after our pick

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Tkachuk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Juolevi

Difference is that Vancouver finds other ways to plug those mistakes. Boeser and Tkachuk aren't all that far apart, and he was taken at 28th overall where the Flames made picks like Klimchuk, Poirier, and Pelletier (still unknown but not exactly blowing the doors off). Calgary has had nothing close to Demko/Markstrom, Hughes, or Petterson filling those key positions in over a decade, and have continually floundered for it.

[MrMike]

Mr Donkey, Jiri,

Haven't some of the best GM's been some of the longest tenured? And been able to make mistakes, learn on the job?

Unless Tre is being told my management to make the playoffs every season at whatever cost, which he very may well be, can we not give the guy a chance to learn from some mistakes?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Mr Donkey, Jiri,

Haven't some of the best GM's been some of the longest tenured? And been able to make mistakes, learn on the job?

Unless Tre is being told my management to make the playoffs every season at whatever cost, which he very may well be, can we not give the guy a chance to learn from some mistakes?

Yes that would be one of my points as to why you give him more time. Though I don't think it is a "learning on the job" thing. For me it's more about guarding against short-term thinking. For instance if you put BT on the "hot seat" - what type of moves do you think he's going to make? Ones that are probably short-term and bad for the long-term, even morso than he has.

But I also think when new regimes come in - mistakes are often made. Look what happened with Button came in - letting players like Giguere and St. Louis go. Tree let Byron go. Constant cycling at the top increases the risk of those things happening in my view.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Mr Donkey, Jiri,

Haven't some of the best GM's been some of the longest tenured? And been able to make mistakes, learn on the job?

Unless Tre is being told my management to make the playoffs every season at whatever cost, which he very may well be, can we not give the guy a chance to learn from some mistakes?

If I had told you 6 years ago that the rebuild would blossom into a team fighting tooth and nail to make 8th seed and get wrecked in 5 games, would you be happy with that?

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Difference is that Vancouver finds other ways to plug those mistakes. Boeser and Tkachuk aren't all that far apart, and he was taken at 28th overall where the Flames made picks like Klimchuk, Poirier, and Pelletier (still unknown but not exactly blowing the doors off). Calgary has had nothing close to Demko/Markstrom, Hughes, or Petterson filling those key positions in over a decade, and have continually floundered for it.

Boeser was 23rd in that strong draft that featured in that range Conner/Chabot/Barzal and more.

Look at the Klimchuk/Poirier picks and it wasn't like we missed out on anything.

Being bad and having draft picks during the right draft.

Luck.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Barca

Canuck fans have been proclaiming him to be the next one even before Marky broke out.

It's not a surprise to us that he's dominating to be quite honest.

but like i said before, Ian Clark is one of, if not the best goaltending coach in the league, If Marky chases the money the Canucks don't sweat at all because it makes the cap situation easier for JB.

we still have Silovs and DiPietro in the system too.

Demko has had a couple of great games. He had not been dominating this year. He's had his struggles, and has shown while he could be a good goalie, he might not be.


How quickly Vancouver forgets that Demko and the Canucks were starting to circle the drain when the season got shut down. It the Canucks don't sign Markstrom or someone else because they're convinced that Demko has arrived, then there is a good chance their screwed, because that is not at all for sure.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Difference is that Vancouver finds other ways to plug those mistakes. Boeser and Tkachuk aren't all that far apart, and he was taken at 28th overall where the Flames made picks like Klimchuk, Poirier, and Pelletier (still unknown but not exactly blowing the doors off). Calgary has had nothing close to Demko/Markstrom, Hughes, or Petterson filling those key positions in over a decade, and have continually floundered for it.

I think Vancouver has been a better drafting team. Though Boeser was 23rd the point still stands.
Though even they made a couple huge blunders with Virtanen and Joe Levi - imagine if they had made better picks there. They'd be cup contenders.

I sincerely believe Calgary's drafting has improved though, and the recent analysis from Bingo would support that. The problem hasn't been what they pick it has been lack of picks.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Canucks tricked us by selecting him after our pick

You can't win 'em all.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Boeser was 23rd in that strong draft that featured in that range Conner/Chabot/Barzal and more.

Look at the Klimchuk/Poirier picks and it wasn't like we missed out on anything.

Being bad and having draft picks during the right draft.

Luck.

Or not trading away boatloads of top 60 picks in strong drafts for players who would later be traded away or walk for nothing a few years later, while stocking up on picks in garbage drafts when other GMs were happy to give them away.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

If I had told you 6 years ago that the rebuild would blossom into a team fighting tooth and nail to make 8th seed and get wrecked in 5 games, would you be happy with that?

The primary reasons for this team not taking a step have been
- Sam Bennett not delivering on his potential
- Lack of progression among the key and supporting players (Johnny, Monahan, but also guys like Jankowski)

So if you had told me 6 years ago that this is where we would be - I would not have been happy. But if you had asked me following that Canucks series win if the players had another step and would continue to progress - I would have set yes. That series win fooled the organization into thinking they could kick the contention window open.

The core hasn't progressed and as such here we are.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think Vancouver has been a better drafting team. Though Boeser was 23rd the point still stands.
Though even they made a couple huge blunders with Virtanen and Joe Levi - imagine if they had made better picks there. They'd be cup contenders

I suspect if they'd made the better picks there they wouldn't have been in a position to draft Pettersson or Hughes later. So it all balances out.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The primary reasons for this team not taking a step have been
- Sam Bennett not delivering on his potential
- Lack of progression among the key and supporting players (Johnny, Monahan, but also guys like Jankowski)

So if you had told me 6 years ago that this is where we would be - I would not have been happy. But if you had asked me following that Canucks series win if the players had another step and would continue to progress - I would have set yes. That series win fooled the organization into thinking they could kick the contention window open.

The core hasn't progressed and as such here we are.

The problem with this organization is that they are a bunch of short-term decision makers with no vision. Just as an example, when it was clear this team wasn't a contender at the trade deadline, management was all too happy to hold onto their UFA defensemen because of a string of injuries on the back end that made them "untradeable". Later they got predictably destroyed after giving away picks for more pending free agents. I don't think they recognize that the difference between contender and bubble team isn't a few band-aids and "Brodie is our rental" type moves.

[Barca]

Apparently Hughes has been sick for a couple of days..

and still put up 2 points tonight overtaking Makar lol

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think Vancouver has been a better drafting team. Though Boeser was 23rd the point still stands.
Though even they made a couple huge blunders with Virtanen and Joe Levi - imagine if they had made better picks there. They'd be cup contenders.

I sincerely believe Calgary's drafting has improved though, and the recent analysis from Bingo would support that. The problem hasn't been what they pick it has been lack of picks.

Here is the butterfly effect though to me.

If they hit and take Tkachuk instead of Joe Levi, They dont finish low enough to get a swing at Hughes.

We wouldn't be having this conversation if Bennett turned into a top line center, of if Draisitle drops to us.

Or we should have offered all picks in the draft like the NYI instead of just the first round for Mackinnon.


Edit: Corsi and Jiri said everything already :P

[868904]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The primary reasons for this team not taking a step have been
- Sam Bennett not delivering on his potential
- Lack of progression among the key and supporting players (Johnny, Monahan, but also guys like Jankowski)

So if you had told me 6 years ago that this is where we would be - I would not have been happy. But if you had asked me following that Canucks series win if the players had another step and would continue to progress - I would have set yes. That series win fooled the organization into thinking they could kick the contention window open.

The core hasn't progressed and as such here we are.

After 2015, we thought we were on the Blackhawks blueprint. We had our Toews (Mony) and Kane (Johnny) and Keith (Brodie) and Seabrook (Gio).

While Gio won a Norris, none of those guys have reached the peak of the Hawks dynasty. Mony’s defensive game completely disappeared after Hartley left.

Maybe our guys were never as good as we thought but they also never had the benefit of a coach like Quenneville. It’s hard who to blame, the players for not being that good or the organization for not developing them well.

The coach selections were undeniably terrible so Treliving has to take the blame for that.