Minneapolis PD Suffocate Unarmed Black Man Who Later Dies in Hospital

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I heard "drop it now" at the start of the first video when I first watched it despite believing he was confirmed to be unarmed. Also sounds like a female yelling "put it down"on current review. Of course could be a case of hearing what you think you hear given how hard it is to discern any of it.

But, the man who shot the video said as much despite saying he didn't see a knife.

https://www.fox6now.com/news/i-didnt...e-gets-justice


Neither videos are clear but there is a couple frames people (blue lives matter...) have identified as showing an object. It could also be unfortunate ghosting of his hand due to video quality.

Spoiler!

https://twitter.com/user/status/1298609715371540480

Of course for the union the'll claim that the smoking gun is...well the knife. A knife on floor of a vehicle and three kids in it would be odd to say the least unless it was planted.

If only the police could place cameras on their bodies somehow.

He was driving a 2013 Dodge Journey, could that be the key fob for the car?

Could he be holding his keychain with the key fob showing in the photo? I mean it's grainy, but that seems more likely than it being a karambit doesn't it?

I don't know what's in his hands, but key fob would be a reasonable explanation.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I saw that object in his hand when I first watched the video, but I just assumed it was his car keys.

[Oling_Roachinen]

I would certainly being agreeing if there was no knife found or at least if it was found in the cubbyhole and it wasn't David Blaine they were confronting. But the cops saying they saw a knife, the man hearing them say "drop the knife", and the knife being found next to him, would be I think improbable but not impossible.

[PepsiFree]

On Monday, another Black man resists arrest and runs away from the cops, another handful of bullets in his back.

He was stopped because of... *checks notes* Ah yes, the dangerous felony of ‘riding a bicycle in violation of vehicle code.’ Better execute him.

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...f-dijon-kizzee

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

On Monday, another Black man resists arrest and runs away from the cops, another handful of bullets in his back.

He was stopped because of... *checks notes* Ah yes, the dangerous felony of ‘riding a bicycle in violation of vehicle code.’ Better execute him.

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...f-dijon-kizzee

Don't worry, by the end of the week I'm sure we'll have a rap sheet of everything bad he's ever done in his life to justify why the police should kill someone who isn't an imminent threat.

[Captain Otto]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

On Monday, another Black man resists arrest and runs away from the cops, another handful of bullets in his back.

He was stopped because of... *checks notes* Ah yes, the dangerous felony of ‘riding a bicycle in violation of vehicle code.’ Better execute him.

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...f-dijon-kizzee

To be fair, the article also states he punched a cop and had a gun.

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

On Monday, another Black man resists arrest and runs away from the cops, another handful of bullets in his back.

He was stopped because of... *checks notes* Ah yes, the dangerous felony of ‘riding a bicycle in violation of vehicle code.’ Better execute him.

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...f-dijon-kizzee

Looks like he's fist fighting a cop in the video and the rest is poor quality to see whats happening. Not making excuses, but that's important to add for context.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I heard "drop it now" at the start of the first video when I first watched it despite believing he was confirmed to be unarmed. Also sounds like a female yelling "put it down"on current review. Of course could be a case of hearing what you think you hear given how hard it is to discern any of it.

But, the man who shot the video said as much despite saying he didn't see a knife.

https://www.fox6now.com/news/i-didnt...e-gets-justice


Neither videos are clear but there is a couple frames people (blue lives matter...) have identified as showing an object. It could also be unfortunate ghosting of his hand due to video quality.

Spoiler!

https://twitter.com/user/status/1298609715371540480

Of course for the union the'll claim that the smoking gun is...well the knife. A knife on floor of a vehicle and three kids in it would be odd to say the least unless it was planted.

If only the police could place cameras on their bodies somehow.

You see I look at that and see me holding my house keys in my hand with the car key/fob hanging out when I go to open the car

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

Looks like he's fist fighting a cop in the video and the rest is poor quality to see whats happening. Not making excuses, but that's important to add for context.

The only thing that matters is... *checks notes*... Oh yes maintaining a narrative.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

But it ultimately comes down to guns. The window of time between when a person isn't a threat, to that person grabbing a hidden firearm and using it lethally on a cop or someone else nearby, is about 2 seconds. When handguns are everywhere in a community - in homes, on persons, in cars - every potentially violent encounter not only becomes deadly, but it becomes deadly immediately.

In the last 10 years, over 500 police officers in the U.S. have been shot and killed on duty. In that same period in the UK, 2 police officers have been shot and killed. Being a police officer in those two countries involves dramatically different exposure to lethal violence. There's no way police behaviour isn't going to be shaped by that exposure.

According to FBI statistics, 48 police officers were killed "feloniously" in 2019. (44 of them with a gun.) There were about 690000 law enforcement officers in the US. That puts their homicide rate at about 7 per 100k per year.

Homicide rate among US men is about 8 per 100k per year.

(About 88% of US police officers are men.)

Bottom line: it's no more dangerous to be a policeman than it is to be any other kind of man in the US. In fact being a police officer in the US is not a particularly dangerous job. Statistically it's not even in the top 10.

I get that you're not saying that it's okay, but that it's human, and I agree that fear is understandable. It's basically the same argument I was making earlier:

The US police officers killing people pre-emptively is horrible, but it's also human if you consider that it's a thing that's considered okay in general in the US, not just among the police.

However, you have to start changing this culture somewhere if you ever want to get results, and I really don't see where else you could start. Restricting guns is at this point logistically impossible even if you did try it. (I still think they should get on that, so they could get results maybe 30 years from now.)

The police are the only violence using group that are specifically trained to do so (excluding soldiers obviously, but their violence is usually done abroad). That's why IMO they're the obvious place to start changing things.

They police should be an example in restraint, not an example that it's okay to shoot someone pre-emptively because you imagine danger might happen.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

The only thing that matters is... *checks notes*... Oh yes maintaining a narrative.

This is where the issue is getting lost.

One of the questions that should be being asked is was there societal value in pulling this person over for a traffic infraction. Then was there societal value in chasing him.

Shootings are outcomes of a small percentage of policing events. One way to reduce them is to look carefully at when the police should enforce and pursue.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Captain Otto

To be fair, the article also states he punched a cop and had a gun.

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

Looks like he's fist fighting a cop in the video and the rest is poor quality to see whats happening. Not making excuses, but that's important to add for context.

Yes, these things are (at least allegedly in terms of the gun) true. But again, as is this case with these situations again and again and again and again, was this situation one that should have happened in the first place, and was the death sentence fitting to the crime?

They stopped him for a bike infraction. Sure, why not. But then he ran... and they chased him. Why? For a bike infraction? That’s ####ing stupid. But whatever, let’s say these are strict by the book cops where no crime is too small.

They catch up to him, and here’s what happens (allegedly):
- They attempt to detain him
- he resists and punches a cop
- in the altercation, he drops his jacket and a gun falls out
- he runs away
- he is shot in the back

So we’ve got the alleged gun (which eyewitnesses couldn’t account for) which sure, if in the small chance that this gun that nobody seemed to see was there and Kizzee was going for it, I get. But literally nothing else that happened that in any way justifies getting shot in the back as you run away. Why are people ok with the police doing this? And by any argument even based on what is alleged to happen, it’s another example of police needlessly escalating a situation. Again, why are we ok with that?

Yes, I know the usual suspects are already lurking doing their research on his background and going “uh uh yer narraaaaative!” Yeah, real compelling stuff probably. But why do we keep doing our best to justify cops shooting people in the back as they’re running away?

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

On Monday, another Black man resists arrest and runs away from the cops, another handful of bullets in his back.

He was stopped because of... *checks notes* Ah yes, the dangerous felony of ‘riding a bicycle in violation of vehicle code.’ Better execute him.

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...f-dijon-kizzee

This is clearly not the same and you know it.

The guy is in a fist fight, you can see him swinging at 0:28, he grapples and seems to have lost something a second later and falls to the ground before police opens fire.

If there was a gun involved with him already assaulting officers and was reaching for it on the ground, there's definitely potential justification of force here. The video does point to something falling on the ground and the statement of events provided does match what the video seems to show.

Obviously a body cam would be able to acknowledge that he had a gun, if it was running...right?

Now if we get stories from LAPD that 'the 3 officers forgot to put their body cam on' there is a problem. The whole question here to me is if a gun was present and why the situation escalated to where it was from a minor infraction. I'm not accepting the LAPD's statement without bodycam evidence, but at the same time I'm not going to compare this one to the James Blake incident because they aren't the same at all.

Now this case, with newly released details, is way worse.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/03/us/ro...ath/index.html

[OMG!WTF!]

They stopped him for a bike infraction. Sure, why not. But then he ran... and they chased him. Why? For a bike infraction?

I have a problem with the bike infraction actually. Usually cops will give you a warning. I saw a guy riding through Olympic Plaza yesterday just get warned by the cops. But to be honest, when you run from the cops, you're not being pursued for the bike infraction. Your ticket for riding your bike just became felony evasion. The rest of this one is just awful and I have no no idea what the cops saw that made them shoot.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by GGG

Shootings are outcomes of a small percentage of policing events. One way to reduce them is to look carefully at when the police should enforce and pursue.

I have more confidence that incidents will become less common as the use of drones increases than I am in changes to training and policy being effective.

[ResAlien]

It’s weird how many people are ok with police executing people. I guess promoting non lethal options are a thing of the past eh? Judge Dredd hell yeah!

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

It’s weird how many people are ok with police executing people. I guess promoting non lethal options are a thing of the past eh? Judge Dredd hell yeah!

Whoa dude he PUNCHED a cop. That's important context when we're talking about 15 to the back. I guess that just doesn't fit your NaRrAtIveeeeeeE.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Whoa dude he PUNCHED a cop. That's important context when we're talking about 15 to the back. I guess that just doesn't fit your NaRrAtIveeeeeeE.

The police version of this event is that Kizzee was reaching for his gun. Not sure why you are leaving that part out. Maybe people should wait for the facts before declaring that people are in favour of police executing people?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Ark2

The police version of this event is that Kizzee was reaching for his gun. Not sure why you are leaving that part out. Maybe people should wait for the facts before declaring that people are in favour of police executing people?

It always is.

I'm also not leaving it out:

So we’ve got the alleged gun (which eyewitnesses couldn’t account for) which sure, if in the small chance that this gun that nobody seemed to see was there and Kizzee was going for it, I get.

My comment was around the fact that people thought it was important to mention that he punched a cop, as though that (in any way) matters when you shoot someone in the back. Reaching for a gun would matter. Punching a cop does not.

[burn_this_city]

I think a lot of people up until now accepted the ethos of, I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. That gave police a lot of latitude to use deadly force when it probably wasn't necessary.