2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by JTech780

Fair enough.

The problem with Sam Bennett is that they only treat him like a core player when the playoffs start, even then he is still getting 3rd line minutes, while the guys getting 1st and 2nd line minutes aren't producing.

If you listen to Tree and particularly Connie talk about Sam, he's going to be a bigger part of things going forward.

3rd line 5v5 minutes aren't insignificant. A lot of the time where players get the extra minutes is on the PP and PK - both places where Benny could see more ice time this coming year as well.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

He doesn't fit in their cap plans though. Two years ago, I could see it. But his game has slipped and the Flames do not have room for $8.25M.

Also, Andersson is arguably already better than him. So why not let the kids continue to develop, and save the $8.25M?

Yes, I agree. I think if the Flames have interest It’s a part of a wider plan. It just would not surprise me if Treliving and Maloney had interest.

It is hard to see a fit though. I doubt Arizona would want to retain salary and outside of Lucic (whole other can of worms there) who would the Flames send back to balance/close the gap on salaries? There would have to be some pretty creative gymnastics to get an 8.25 LHS D into the fold. The more I think about it the less likely it seems.

[Roof-Daddy]

Hopefully somewhere right now big Buff is getting in shape and planning to come back, he'd be awesome to sign for 1 year around $2-3 million IMO.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

If you listen to Tree and particularly Connie talk about Sam, he's going to be a bigger part of things going forward.

3rd line 5v5 minutes aren't insignificant. A lot of the time where players get the extra minutes is on the PP and PK - both places where Benny could see more ice time this coming year as well.

That’s my take away on what has been discussed publicly as well.

Good for Sam, it has taken a while but it looks like he will have a new opportunity with the organization. Let’s just hope playoff Sam Bennett shows up at least 60-70% of the time during the regular season. That would take a lot of the heat off of himself. He may even earn himself a raise and a contract over 2 years.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by TOfan

That’s my take away on what has been discussed publicly as well.

Good for Sam, it has taken a while but it looks like he will have a new opportunity with the organization. Let’s just hope playoff Sam Bennett shows up at least 60-70% of the time during the regular season. That would take a lot of the heat off of himself. He may even earn himself a raise and a contract over 2 years.

That has to be the hope. The team needs him to take a step - and seizing an earned opportunity would help down that path in a huge way.

As Sam said in his exit interview, he just needs the opportunity and then it's all on him.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by JTech780

If your core players need other players to make them effective or successful, they probably shouldn't be your core players.

It is exaggerations like these that really bog down this discussion. What you are suggesting is impossible, unless you choose to limit the definition of "core player" to only one, two or three players for every team.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

That has to be the hope. The team needs him to take a step - and seizing an earned opportunity would help down that path in a huge way.

As Sam said in his exit interview, he just needs the opportunity and then it's all on him.

I think this is pretty much what we have heard from management before. They like the way he has handled himself by accepting responsibility in years prior. There is a reason why he hasn’t been dealt.

[JTech780]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

It is exaggerations like these that really bog down this discussion. What you are suggesting is impossible, unless you choose to limit the definition of "core player" to only one, two or three players for every team.

Ok well lets limit it to Gaudreau and Monahan then, they are supposed to be the two top forwards on the team and offensive leaders. They aren't effective and successful in the playoffs and if they need other players to make them effective and successful then they probably shouldn't be looked at or paid like top forwards or leaders on this team.

When you look at the last 10 years or so of Cup winners, they all have 3 things in common. They all have a number 1 center who is elite at both ends of the ice (O'Reilly, Backstrom, Crosby, Toews, Kopitar, Bergeron). They have a number 1 defenseman who is elite at both ends of the ice (Pietrangelo, Carlson, Keith, Doughty, Letang, Chara). They have a goalie capable of getting hot and stealing a number of games (Binnington, Holtby, Murray, Fleury, Rask, Crawford, Quick). We don't have any of those pieces. I don't see this team winning until they get those pieces.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

It is exaggerations like these that really bog down this discussion. What you are suggesting is impossible, unless you choose to limit the definition of "core player" to only one, two or three players for every team.

What do you think a core player is?

[TheIronMaiden]

Just throwing this out for discussion. The Flames "core players" that is players who should not be traded under normal circumstances are - Monahan, Lindholm, Tkachuck, Bennett, Andersson, Hanifin, Dube, Valimaki and Pelletier. Kind of an extensive list, honestly.

Gio, Backlund, Mangiapane, Kyllington and Gaudreau are the Flames primary trade bate. I would love to see Ryan, Lucic or Jankowski get traded but that is too unrealistic.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Just throwing this out for discussion. The Flames "core players" that is players who should not be traded under normal circumstances are - Monahan, Lindholm, Tkachuck, Bennett, Andersson, Hanifin, Dube, Valimaki and Pelletier. Kind of an extensive list, honestly.

Gio, Backlund, Mangiapane, Kyllington and Gaudreau are the Flames primary trade bate. I would love to see Ryan, Lucic or Jankowski get traded but that is too unrealistic.

Looks more like a list of movable/unmovable assets to me. Hard to be a ‘core player’ if you have never played a game in the league.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Looks more like a list of movable/unmovable assets to me. Hard to be a ‘core player’ if you have never played a game in the league.

That last point is fair. Nevertheless, what is a core player if not an unmovable asset?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by JTech780

Ok well lets limit it to Gaudreau and Monahan then, they are supposed to be the two top forwards on the team and offensive leaders. They aren't effective and successful in the playoffs and if they need other players to make them effective and successful then they probably shouldn't be looked at or paid like top forwards or leaders on this team.

When you look at the last 10 years or so of Cup winners, they all have 3 things in common. They all have a number 1 center who is elite at both ends of the ice (O'Reilly, Backstrom, Crosby, Toews, Kopitar, Bergeron). They have a number 1 defenseman who is elite at both ends of the ice (Pietrangelo, Carlson, Keith, Doughty, Letang, Chara). They have a goalie capable of getting hot and stealing a number of games (Binnington, Holtby, Murray, Fleury, Rask, Crawford, Quick). We don't have any of those pieces. I don't see this team winning until they get those pieces.

Gaudreau and Money aren't paid like top forwards

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

That last point is fair. Nevertheless, what is a core player if not an unmovable asset?

For me, a core player is on the inner circle of the leadership group. At this point in time I think that would be the guys who are wearing letters and perhaps those who could be in the years to come, Rasmus Anderson for example.

I think the unmovable asset list is a little longer; Valamaki and Dube for example.

Regardless, I think the unmovable list should be pretty short for this team.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Just throwing this out for discussion. The Flames "core players" that is players who should not be traded under normal circumstances are - Monahan, Lindholm, Tkachuck, Bennett, Andersson, Hanifin, Dube, Valimaki and Pelletier. Kind of an extensive list, honestly.

Gio, Backlund, Mangiapane, Kyllington and Gaudreau are the Flames primary trade bate. I would love to see Ryan, Lucic or Jankowski get traded but that is too unrealistic.

I don't see Pelletier as a core player or an unmovable asset.

Hes a left shot LW who I don't think has top line upside. Not in a hurry to trade him or anything, but I'd package him up for a long term upgrade somewhere else on the roster without hesitation if the opportunity presented itself.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by TOfan

For me, a core player is on the inner circle of the leadership group. At this point in time I think that would be the guys who are wearing letters and perhaps those who could be in the years to come, Rasmus Anderson for example.

I think the unmovable asset list is a little longer; Valamaki for example.

Regardless, I think the unmovable list should be pretty short for this team.

The unmovable list could stand to be a lot shorter but I think that Hanifin, Lindholm and Monahan are on the list because they are on very team friendly contracts.

I know people like to #### on Monahan but he is the top playoff producer on the team, and one of the top producing players the Flames have ever had, and he only gets paid $6,375,000 a year for the next three seasons.


I mean Bennett could be movable, but as it stands he is one of three players on the Flames who actually produces during the playoffs. Not to mention he is just about the only physical forward outside of Lucic.

[Moneyhands23]

So with Jake Allen and his 4mil dollar cap hit going to Montreal does this mean price is on the move. Cant have that much money in goaltending

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by JTech780

Ok well lets limit it to Gaudreau and Monahan then, they are supposed to be the two top forwards on the team and offensive leaders. They aren't effective and successful in the playoffs and if they need other players to make them effective and successful then they probably shouldn't be looked at or paid like top forwards or leaders on this team.

Monahan and Gaudreau are not paid like top-forwards—at least not relative to the pay-structure in the NHL where top-line players are now earning in the range of $8–12 m. And this essentially makes the same point that several have been arguing for in this thread and elsewhere: that is, that one or both of Gaudreau and Monahan should be removed from the core, and replaced by better or more effective players.

When you look at the last 10 years or so of Cup winners, they all have 3 things in common. They all have a number 1 center who is elite at both ends of the ice (O'Reilly, Backstrom, Crosby, Toews, Kopitar, Bergeron).

Agreed.

They have a number 1 defenseman who is elite at both ends of the ice (Pietrangelo, Carlson, Keith, Doughty, Letang, Chara).

Since when is Kris Letang "elite at both ends of the ice"?

They have a goalie capable of getting hot and stealing a number of games (Binnington, Holtby, Murray, Fleury, Rask, Crawford, Quick).

And for several of these teams (Chicago, Pittsburgh, St Louis) the discovery of said capable goalie came as a rather sudden surprise.

We don't have any of those pieces. I don't see this team winning until they get those pieces.

That is a matter of conjecture, and it is also a big part of why I think then Flames would be well served to make changes to the existing core group.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

The unmovable list could stand to be a lot shorter but I think that Hanifin, Lindholm and Monahan are on the list because they are on very team friendly contracts.

I know people like to #### on Monahan but he is the top playoff producer on the team, and one of the top producing players the Flames have ever had, and he only gets paid $6,375,000 a year for the next three seasons.


I mean Bennett could be movable, but as it stands he is one of three players on the Flames who actually produces during the playoffs. Not to mention he is just about the only physical forward outside of Lucic.

The only way I move Monahan is if you’re either completely rebuilding or a C is coming back.

I would have Hanifin on my movable list, but that’s because the Flames have the depth on the left side to explore options. You would have to expect a top two line (preferably RHS) forward, a RHS D, or a starting G coming back.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I don't see Pelletier as a core player or an unmovable asset.

Hes a left shot LW who I don't think has top line upside. Not in a hurry to trade him or anything, but I'd package him up for a long term upgrade somewhere else on the roster without hesitation if the opportunity presented itself.

I think that a lot of the Flames ( or all NHL teams for that matter) decision making this off season will relate to the salary cap. Bottom line is the Flames need players on ELCs to take up roster spots. Also the Fact that he is exempt from the expansion draft increases his value.

If the Flames are going to move a left winger it should be Mangiapane. He is undersized and shoots left. Moreover he is due for a pay raise this off season. I think he holds a lot of value and can help bring in someone who addresses the Flames needs.

The Flames need to make some difficult choices, and right now a lot of that is trenched in the fact that the Flames have poor cap space, and about 4 bloated contracts they can't realistically move - Ryan, Backlund, Gio and Lucic.