2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I thought you wanted a rebuild after the season ended?

Do you still feel that way and are just resigned to the probability that the Flames would never go that route at this time?

As a fan, I would be totally in favour of a complete rebuild, because rebuilds are fun and full of hope.

However, as I said in another thread, organizations - as businesses - will rarely if ever tear down a core that is young and cost-controlled, just because it didn't have success right away. And nor should they.

So not only do I understand the team's perspective, but I agree with it on some levels. And as a result - and also because fans are currently so ridiculously and unfairly negative right now - I have been arguing for that view.

But as I said, if there were to be a rebuild, I would embrace it.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

At 37, Gio isn't getting more effective.

Gaudreau and Monahan have not gotten more effective, though three coaches have desperately tried to coax better overall games out of them.

We could give it a try for a couple more seasons. But if it still isn't working, the declining value of the core pieces means you're looking at a full, scorched-earth teardown at that point.

I don't know that it does.

You just named three players, but the Flames "core" is comprised of arguably six or seven. The case that I see a number of posters mounting is that core adjustments are are viable way forward, especially in a League where the margins are so thin, and the outcomes so often not much more than random.

So, yes. I think it is time to explore moving on from Giordano, and I think the Flames should also move one of Gaudreau or Monahan. Supplementing an existing core of Tkachuk, Lindholm, Andersson, along with promising pieces like Valimaki, Dube and Mangiapane is a viable option which potentially leads to better results. Especially given that the oldest member of that group is only 25.

[Enoch Root]

Giordano had a tough year, but for me, he had a lot of credit in his bank account up to that point. career paths aren't linear, and sometimes guys just have an off year. Doesn't mean you should just flush them.

Also, Gio brings a lot more to the team than just what he does on the ice. A good example of which is the fact that Mackey specifically mentioned him as a reason that he signed with Calgary.

I do not think they should be moving Giordano. Nor do I think they will.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Giordano had a tough year, but for me, he had a lot of credit in his bank account up to that point. career paths aren't linear, and sometimes guys just have an off year. Doesn't mean you should just flush them.

Also, Gio brings a lot more to the team than just what he does on the ice. A good example of which is the fact that Mackey specifically mentioned him as a reason that he signed with Calgary.

I do not think they should be moving Giordano. Nor do I think they will.

I don’t see it either. There is an off ice value to the organization that the Flames hold in high regard as well. I do think Gio’s perch as the teams No1 D is something that can/should be questioned though.

I also wonder if the Flames look to pursue OEL and move Hanifin, whether as part of that trade or elsewhere.

[Enoch Root]

If he has a bounce-back season, he will remain the #1. If not, he will move down the lineup as others fill bigger roles. Either way, I think he'll be in Flames silks for the remainder of his contract, and most likely for the remainder of his career.

I sure hope they stay away from OEL.

[Harry Lime]

I lost track of where it was said in the 19 threads talking about such things, but the presence of Mackie shouldn't be underrated. I think that the long term plan was to keep Mackie in the AHL for one season (as a call-up) and then expose Gio to the expansion draft. If Gio survives that, then Hanifin (with a year of top pair duty) becomes the biggest trade chip in the league for the following off-season, should Valimaki look good in his rookie season.

If Gio is picked up by Seattle, the depth becomes Hanifin/Valimaki/Mackie. Pretty good.

Either way, I don't think that the Flames sell a defenseman this off-season. I think that they move Kylington to the right and pick up one more right handed D.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

I lost track of where it was said in the 19 threads talking about such things, but the presence of Mackie shouldn't be underrated. I think that the long term plan was to keep Mackie in the AHL for one season (as a call-up) and then expose Gio to the expansion draft. If Gio survives that, then Hanifin (with a year of top pair duty) becomes the biggest trade chip in the league for the following off-season, should Valimaki look good in his rookie season.

If Gio is picked up by Seattle, the depth becomes Hanifin/Valimaki/Mackie. Pretty good.

Either way, I don't think that the Flames sell a defenseman this off-season. I think that they move Kylington to the right and pick up one more right handed D.

I think Noah Hanifin is the player most likely traded this off-season.

Giordano
Valimaki
Mackey
Kylington
Lerby
Poolman

It's trusting youth, but that's a good thing to do, and Hanifin should garner a significant return that could help the structure of the team going forward.

[SportsJunky]

I'll give you Mackey but Lerby and Poolman seems a stretch. At least today.

Like you, I could also see Hanifin shipped out although his age suggests that he should get better. It's a risk.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I think Noah Hanifin is the player most likely traded this off-season.

Giordano
Valimaki
Mackey
Kylington
Lerby
Poolman

It's trusting youth, but that's a good thing to do, and Hanifin should garner a significant return that could help the structure of the team going forward.

Andersson?

Still, 5 of the 6 you listed are not yet established NHLers. No way the team goes with that little experience (unless it's a full rebuild)

[Enoch Root]

I don't see Hanifin being moved unless another established top 4 Dman comes back.

I think the Flames see Hanifin-Andersson as the heirs apparent

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

If he has a bounce-back season, he will remain the #1. If not, he will move down the lineup as others fill bigger roles. Either way, I think he'll be in Flames silks for the remainder of his contract, and most likely for the remainder of his career.

I sure hope they stay away from OEL.

True, a bounce back season wouldn’t be a shock but at some point age will take a hold here. A fall is inevitable and who is picking up the slack?

I suspect Treliving and Maloney will have interest in OEL, maybe not though. Friedman spoke about this a bit on the most recent 31 thoughts podcast. He also speculated OEL is a change of scenery candidate. A bounce back with this player could also be at hand.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Andersson?

Still, 5 of the 6 you listed are not yet established NHLers. No way the team goes with that little experience (unless it's a full rebuild)

Think he's looking at LH shots / guys that play the left side.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TOfan

True, a bounce back season wouldn’t be a shock but at some point age will take a hold here. A fall is inevitable and who is picking up the slack?

I suspect Treliving and Maloney will have interest in OEL, maybe not though. Friedman spoke about this a bit on the most recent 31 thoughts podcast. He also speculated OEL is a change of scenery candidate. A bounce back with this player could also be at hand.

He doesn't fit in their cap plans though. Two years ago, I could see it. But his game has slipped and the Flames do not have room for $8.25M.

Also, Andersson is arguably already better than him. So why not let the kids continue to develop, and save the $8.25M?

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Andersson?

Still, 5 of the 6 you listed are not yet established NHLers. No way the team goes with that little experience (unless it's a full rebuild)

Was only listing the LHD, sorry should have clarified.

Gio is on the top pair. Valimaki on the 2nd, and Mackey on the 3rd and Kylington can play both sides. That's perfectly good LHD depth in my eyes.

We definitely need two more RHD. That's absolutely needed, and you can fit in some experience on that flank.

Giordano - Andersson
Valimaki - ?
Mackey - ?
Kylington

That's pretty good - that #4 spot needs to be filled properly, and you need to key in on it and get good value.

Would Minnesota do Hanifin for Dumba? They get younger and cheaper.

Giordano - Andersson
Valimaki - Dumba

That'd be my dream top four.

Or you go into free agency and snag Barrie, while bringing in other assets for Hanifin.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Think he's looking at LH shots / guys that play the left side.

Ah, makes sense. Even if so, I don't think they are in a position to move Hanifin. You can't assume Mackey is ready yet, and none of the other guys are, though Kylington is knocking on the door.

I see the left side as:

Giordano
Hanifin
Valimaki

for this year, and wait to see what happens from there.

Valimaki, and Mackey are exempt, so that buys them the year they need to see where they are. Then next year, you choose who you want to run with, between: Hanifin, Valimaki, Kylington, and Mackey

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I don't see Hanifin being moved unless another established top 4 Dman comes back.

I think the Flames see Hanifin-Andersson as the heirs apparent

I’m not so sure on Hanifin. He can eat up mins, but I don’t think he’s going to turn into this +50pt D-man he may have once been projected to be. Has he really changed since he arrived? To me, he looks like a quality 2 pair.

The Flames also look to have a surplus of LHS D. I suspect one is going to be moved and Hanifin might have the most value. I don’t think the Flames have any desire to move Gio, Valamaki, or Mackey. I don’t think Kylington is going to get you much back I return other than what he has shown himself to be; a bubble/7th D.

[JTech780]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The core certainly hasn't gotten it done to date.

One thing I continue to find amazing is how much of a pass Lindholm has gotten for that fact. In these past 10 games, I can't think of ANY instances where he was effective in the offensive zone.

I know that he had personal issues, and I give him a pass for that. My point is: I think people are putting too much of the blame on Gaudreau. I saw lots of compete from Gaudreau, but the line was completely ineffective.

I think they would have looked a lot better with Toffoli on the line, retrieving pucks and going to the front of the net, than what they had.

You try to find a way to make your core players effective and successful before you throw in the towel and start over.

If your core players need other players to make them effective or successful, they probably shouldn't be your core players.

[Enoch Root]

Yeah, that #4 on the right side is one of the biggest question marks on the team for this summer. The one way that I would be fine with trading Hanifin would be to swap for a right hand D with similar skill and potential.

But I would still rather wait a year first to see how much Valimaki, Mackey and Kylington progress.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Ah, makes sense. Even if so, I don't think they are in a position to move Hanifin. You can't assume Mackey is ready yet, and none of the other guys are, though Kylington is knocking on the door.

I see the left side as:

Giordano
Hanifin
Valimaki

for this year, and wait to see what happens from there.

Valimaki, and Mackey are exempt, so that buys them the year they need to see where they are. Then next year, you choose who you want to run with, between: Hanifin, Valimaki, Kylington, and Mackey

The problem with that is it leaves very little cap-space to improve your team elsewhere. Goaltending needs to be improved, as does the right side defence - and that's on top of needing another top level player in the top-9 up front.

Moving Hanifin and trusting Valimaki and Mackey allows you to improve the team elsewhere - places where we don't have people that (in my eyes) should be trusted to step in.

[JTech780]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

A bit cherry-picky. ROR had 3 5v5 points in 13 playoff games prior to that run. You've also omitted our own playoff points leader, Sam Bennett has 10 5v5 points in 30 playoff games so far.

I'm not disagreeing with your sentiment, just wanted to get all the information out there.

Fair enough.

The problem with Sam Bennett is that they only treat him like a core player when the playoffs start, even then he is still getting 3rd line minutes, while the guys getting 1st and 2nd line minutes aren't producing.