Should/Will the Flames keep Ward

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Since you mentioned it here and it continues to get mentioned by others, Burke stated last week that when he was with the Flames, there was never any direction from above or strategy among the management that money shouldn't be spent on coaching.

Suggesting there isn't a cap or budget on a coaches salary is one thing. Then the owner has to be sold on the idea of paying that much to a coach, which seems to be another thing altogether.

To my point that I made in a previous post, even if they did want to spend to a higher limit, could he afford to or would the appetite be there at this time?

[OldSam]

Maybe Tre has been talking to coaching candidates on Zoom. Maybe he is talking on the phone to them. Maybe he is trying to see if there is interest before making the decision to keep or terminate Ward. I don't think media being in the dark means anything.

If Ward stays, there will be big changes. The players we have don't suit his system. Back to defensive hockey with a lot less scoring.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Suggesting there isn't a cap or budget on a coaches salary is one thing. Then the owner has to be sold on the idea of paying that much to a coach, which seems to be another thing altogether.

To my point that I made in a previous post, even if they did want to spend to a higher limit, could he afford to or would the appetite be there at this time?

If you are going to spend to the cap it seems a waste to me to not be willing to spend money on a good coach. To me it is like buying a Ferrari and then powering it with a Fiero engine, you are not winning any races no matter how nice all the pieces look if the engine is crap.

[Ashasx]

If BT's job is riding on having the right coach in place, I don't know why he would bet on Ward.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

If BT's job is riding on having the right coach in place, I don't know why he would bet on Ward.

And I don't know why would settle for a coach that in the end, got the same results this franchise has been used to for the past 30 years. Especially when you have better options on the market.

Flames have no obligation to hold on to Ward, and pass on a significant upgrade to give this team the best possible coaching it can have. With this many highly acclaimed coaches on the market this off season, there's absolutely no reason why the Flames shouldn't grab one of them after grabbing from the coaching bargain bin for well over the past decade.

If this franchise is ever gonna get out of the black hole it's trapped in. They need to start making winning moves from the front office, to the on-ice roster.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

If BT's job is riding on having the right coach in place, I don't know why he would bet on Ward.

Probably something to do with how Ward performed this past season as the head coach.

He nailed it.

That being said, I still would have preferred one of the "elite" coaches - but Ward's results are not something you should ignore.

[Corral]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Mmmmmm. No. That's not how it works.

I agree that Hufnagel is a fantastic manager and team builder. However, any comparison between managing a CFL team and a NHL team is still laughably off point. In other words, any lessons to be gleaned from Hufnagel's team philosophy and roster construction are inapplicable at the NHL level.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

Another assertion. Compelling as always

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Probably something to do with how Ward performed this past season as the head coach.

He nailed it.

That being said, I still would have preferred one of the "elite" coaches - but Ward's results are not something you should ignore.

Did he really nail it though? Before the pause happened, it wasn't like Flames were guaranteed making a playoff spot. Sure the Flames record was good overall from when he took over. Not sure how they ranked compared to the rest of the league in the timespan, but it wasn't like Flames were playing flawless hockey. There was still warts that were of concern in their play, and as I said, they weren't in a secure enough position in the standings to believe they would've comfortably made the playoffs based on their pace.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

If BT's job is riding on having the right coach in place, I don't know why he would bet on Ward.

Because he's the same guy that bet on Glen Gulutzan. I have a feeling the day he gets fired as Flames GM many of us will come back to his assessment of head coaches as his main downfall. I'm very prepared for the news that he names Ward as his last head coach.

[Sylvanfan]

Outside of one year where Gallant caught Lightning in a bottle with the VGK, his coaching record is littered with missed playoffs, and first round exits.

I'm sure there are advanced stats to suggest his teams have been better than their records and that they are horribly unlucky....but the VGK were his third chance to coach a NHL team.

So due to that, I do wonder if throwing Ward aside after half a season really is such a smart move. Interview whoever you can, and if he win's the competition good. But I am not wanting to condemn the Flames for not yet hiring these ultra elite guys in Laviolette, Gallant, and Boudreau have combined to win 0 Stanley Cups, and never coached in a Canadian market.

[1qqaaz]

Boudreau got to the second round or further in 7 of his 13 seasons as the head coach. He made the playoffs in 11 or 13 seasons and has one of the highest winning percentages in history.

The Flames have made it past the first round twice in my life.

Boudreau has a large sample size. High winning percentage.
In a 32 team league, asking for cups is starting to become a bit much. Especially when you compare to what the Flames have accomplished.

Feaster won a cup as a GM. I wouldn't necessarily want to hire hire him. Babcock is old news. Sutter's style might not even suit the modern NHL.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Mmmmmm. No. That's not how it works.

I agree that Hufnagel is a fantastic manager and team builder. However, any comparison between managing a CFL team and a NHL team is still laughably off point. In other words, any lessons to be gleaned from Hufnagel's team philosophy and roster construction are inapplicable at the NHL level.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

That's exactly how it works. 8 out of 14 teams made the NHL playoffs in the West. I certainly getting wanting to defend the Flames efforts, but relative to your competition it should be more likely to make it than not. Saying it's easy is of course an expression of speech to reflect this mathematical reality. Beating your competition is not easy, yet some teams (the majority) are able to figure it out every year.

And by the same token, no one is saying Hufnagel should run an NHL team. But why would his philosophy in running a professional sports organization be laughably inapplicable? Sounds kind of arrogant actually.

[FlamesAddiction]

I accidentally raised an old thread from the dead, but meant to post in here.

I think the fact Ward was hired as and associate coach (not an assistant) shows that Treliving had him on his radar before the Peters thing happened.

I could be wrong, but I think associate coaches get paid close to the same as head coaches and part of the reason teams hire them is to keep them in the fold to take over as head coach.

[Ashasx]

I just think if Treliving sticks with Ward, his seat must not be nearly as hot as thought it was.

The Flames have been nothing but inconsistent under Ward. Middling possession numbers (terrible in the playoffs). May not have even made the post-season if COVID didn't happen.

If the Flames hadn't lucked out facing the corpse of the Winnipeg Jets in the qualifying round, would this even be a discussion?

[mile]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I accidentally raised an old thread from the dead, but meant to post in here.

I think the fact Ward was hired as and associate coach (not an assistant) shows that Treliving had him on his radar before the Peters thing happened.

I could be wrong, but I think associate coaches get paid close to the same as head coaches and part of the reason teams hire them is to keep them in the fold to take over as head coach.

Ward interviewed for the HC job in 2016 after the Hartley firing, but Treliving picked Gulutzan over him. Reirden also interviewed for that job and based on that quote from him about his coaching style, he sounds like a similar coach as Ward and Gulutzan - very diplomatic, player-friendly.

Treliving fired Gulutzan in favour of a tougher, hard-ass coach. If he chooses sticks with Ward, wouldn't it be a backwards move when it comes to the coach he wants?

I think Treliving offered the Associate title to lure him away from New Jersey and for his Power Play work, not necessarily to have him as a successor for the HC job.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Did he really nail it though? Before the pause happened, it wasn't like Flames were guaranteed making a playoff spot. Sure the Flames record was good overall from when he took over. Not sure how they ranked compared to the rest of the league in the timespan, but it wasn't like Flames were playing flawless hockey. There was still warts that were of concern in their play, and as I said, they weren't in a secure enough position in the standings to believe they would've comfortably made the playoffs based on their pace.

Turns out, no he didn’t nail it. My bad.

During Wards run as interim head coach (regular season, beginning November 29th):

- 4th in the Western Conference in Points Percentage (.607), behind St. Louis (.644), Vegas (.659), Colorado (.674)
- 16th most ROW
- 17th CF% (49.29)
- 16th xGF% (50.93)

...there’s absolutely nothing telling me Ward is anything but a replacement level coach. We did have the 7th best HDCF%, which could speak to a poor team shooting percentage but mixed with our absolutely mediocre and cruddy possession stats it just means we’ve reverted into a team that tries to score off the rush and doesn’t maintain possession (which matches the ol eye test) - which is not a path to sustainable success.

Sigh. I thought the underlying numbers would be stronger than this.

Mediocrity, thy name is the Calgary Flames.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

That's exactly how it works. 8 out of 14 teams made the NHL playoffs in the West. I certainly getting wanting to defend the Flames efforts, but relative to your competition it should be more likely to make it than not. Saying it's easy is of course an expression of speech to reflect this mathematical reality.

If this is what you meant, then you probably should have taken better care with how you expressed yourself. I am incapable of reading your mind.

Beating your competition is not easy, yet some teams (the majority) are able to figure it out every year.

And again, your usage of language here is sloppy. A MAJORITY of teams makes the playoffs every year, which is distinctly different from the same majority from one year to the next. Regardless of the fact that one more team in the West plays in the playoffs than those that miss, the simple truth is that it is always going to be more difficult to be one of those teams than not. And this is why, while the expression is mathematically true, it is false in practice.

And by the same token, no one is saying Hufnagel should run an NHL team. But why would his philosophy in running a professional sports organization be laughably inapplicable? Sounds kind of arrogant actually.

Without knowing specifically what the philosophy is, I don't believe any applied to the CFL would be applicable in the NHL because of how dramatically different the talent pool and the rules of player acquisition are. Do you honestly feel that success in the NHL boils down to doing what Hufnagel does? Come on.

[dissentowner]

Here is the thing, if BT gives Ward the head coaching gig you have to trade your skill players who are not physical or it isn't going to work. That means both Monahan and Gaudreau have to go. Neither are players that can thrive in a chip and chase hard hitting defensive minded type game. I am not saying you can't win with Ward as head coach, I am saying you can't win with those two players as two of your top 3 forwards in his system.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by mile

Treliving did say Gulutzan was a good coach a couple of weeks before he fired him.

We really need a swear filter on this.

I think Ward was fine, and a guy who is likely to grow with the team given a little patience and security.
Two of the Flames biggest failings, especially under BT have been goaltending and coaching. I think at this point, you set the team back further with yet another coaching change.

[Erick Estrada]

At least with Ward the floor isn't low as they know that he's good enough to coach them to a team in the hunt for the 8th spot. I'm just not convinced he's the guy that's going to take this roster over the hump. If Treliving was to again bypass the proven winners, hunting for his own guy things could get worse if he swings and misses on an unproven coach.