Jason Botchford of the Athletic..dead at age 48

[tvp2003]

Without trying to sound insensitive, what is the moral of the Jason Botchford story? Is there one?

The reason I ask is because I’m reminded of a former football player who also became a secret drug user/addict. First painkillers, but later other drugs. Eventually got “caught” and spent time in jail before getting clean and rebuilding his life. Despite how hard/embarrassing that probably was, I’m guessing his family would have preferred that outcome versus what actually happened...

[afc wimbledon]

fentanyl is being mixed into just about everything these days as its about the only drug dealers can get their hands on 'normally' with the borders being so closed down, dealers will mix a bit of fentanyl is as it increases the sense of strength of the weed/coke/mdma etc, fentanyl gives a very fast euphoric high, it literally makes the user feel the drug they are taking is strong

[PepsiFree]

I think the only obvious moral is that drugs can be dangerous, not least of all when you can’t trust the source. It’s not really a new or interesting moral, just a reminder.

Whatever else you want to take from it probably depends on your own morals and beliefs about drugs.

[Street Pharmacist]

In BC we're losing almost as many people EVERY MONTH from overdose as we have from COVID altogether. It's not the chronic users necessarily either. Talked to a volunteer who had to use 8 vials of naloxone to on someone the other day. It's tragic and I wish we were doing more

[FlamesAddiction]

With the travel restrictions, the supply chain for some drugs has been disrupted and people are cutting it with fillers more than usual.

[PaperBagger'14]

This makes me really appreciative that myself and my group of friends stopped using drugs years ago before fentanyl was around.

[browna]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I have huge respect for the family though, this would be the last thing most families would want to publicize, incredibly brave and community minded to be open about this

May also be to simply get the brutally honest truth out from the start in order to halt any ongoing whispers or rumours as far as the public goes.

Messed up world today, and at some point in the day weeks or years ahead, that coroner’s info gets out to the media/public, or worse, to someone who tries to shake down the family. Regardless, then the family has to deal with it all again in a public space and then explain why they covered it up originally etc.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Browna

May also be to simply get the brutally honest truth out from the start in order to halt any ongoing whispers or rumours as far as the public goes.

Messed up world today, and at some point in the day weeks or years ahead, that coroner’s info gets out to the media/public, or worse, to someone who tries to shake down the family. Regardless, then the family has to deal with it all again in a public space and then explain why they covered it up originally etc.

The information has been out there for a bit, so I think local media wasn't interested in throwing one of their former colleagues under the bus in his passing.

Fentanyl isn't just a DTES problem and I am glad that they have have released this info because it helps highlight that. The real issue is, that a casual drug user will have no idea, and OD very quickly. That's the case that happened here with Botchford. People, even experienced drug users, need to be incredibly careful right now.

[Language]

I’m not afraid to admit (as this is obviously an anonymous public forum for the most part), that I’ve been a casual/recreational user of MDMA and cocaine over the last 10 years or so.

I never touched it in high school or university, and for the most part was largely oblivious to it. It was only when I started working a white collar professional job, coupled with going out to music festivals and EDM shows that I started to dabble in both. I’m not one of those people who needs to be on drugs to enjoy that particular music scene, and I’ve gone hundreds of shows completely sober and enjoyed myself, but it does give you an extra sense of social euphoria and enjoyment.

I would never consider myself having a substance abuse problem, as I never had any dependency on it and, and suppose I am fortunate that I can say that.

I had a very reliable source for both that I used, but of course knew that there was always a small calculated risk involved.

I still go out occasionally, but now that I have a newborn baby, I can honestly say I wouldn’t touch that stuff at all, as much as I slightly miss it, especially when you see people partying with it around you. The risk is just too great now, and seeing a story like this just exasperates it. It’s scary how one bad dose can literally kill you.

I doubt Jason Botchford was an addict, just someone who liked to use recreationally. It would be easy to label him as having a substance abuse problem, but there are a ton of people who use it recreationally, similar to how people drink recreationally. It’s possible his wife even knew and just accepted it. Unfortunately, a bad batch cost him his life, and his kids lost their dad.

It would be great if there was a larger movement or acceptance of the fact that cocaine/MDMA is here to stay, and a willingness to make it safer by regulating/legalizing it. It’s a complicated subject and I know there’s no easy answer, as you’re still at risk of heart attacks just from taking cocaine, but perhaps regulating it could help avoid situations like this.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Poe969]

This is one of the reasons street drugs are illegal. You can't trust them. You ant trust the source. You can't legalize them because they're just too risky and dangerous.

I sympathize with the family and for those dealing with addiction, its terrible. The thing is, when you use street drugs, your gambling with your life. Something can go wrong, terribly wrong, at any given time. Sure, you get to feel amazing but your not only risking your life, you're risking everyone else's feelings.

I know I'll take a lot of heat for this and it'll be an unpopular view but I have to say it. I think it's selfish to use and do stuff like this. There's risk in everything you do but you're risking so much when you use street drugs. And the whole "its part of society" and "everyone else is doing it" is BS too. Some of the comments in here made me shake my head, the dealer should be charged for murder? How about he should be charged for selling drugs lol.

[tvp2003]

^^ It’s unfortunate that someone who thinks illegal drugs are bad has to take any “heat” for their “unpopular” opinion. Substance abuse is a complicated issue but I don’t think anyone needs to apologize or put out a disclaimer if that’s what they think. And maybe it’s because I live in a bubble and have not (and will not) be in that environment or circle of friends, but I’m totally okay with that.

Originally Posted by Language

I would never consider myself having a substance abuse problem, as I never had any dependency on it and, and suppose I am fortunate that I can say that.

I’m not an expert, but I think you would be in the minority as street drugs, albeit to varying degrees, can be incredibly addictive. I guessing that is why legalizing it is not really a solution?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

^^ It’s unfortunate that someone who thinks illegal drugs are bad has to take any “heat” for their “unpopular” opinion. Substance abuse is a complicated issue but I don’t think anyone needs to apologize or put out a disclaimer if that’s what they think. And maybe it’s because I live in a bubble and have not (and will not) be in that environment or circle of friends, but I’m totally okay with that.

I’m not an expert, but I think you would be in the minority as street drugs, albeit to varying degrees, can be incredibly addictive. I guessing that is why legalizing it is not really a solution?

Firstly, to the “you can’t legalise them because they’re too risky” idea. Most of these drugs are risky because they’re illegal. Instead of knowing what you’re getting from verifiable sources you can trust, you’re often taking a gamble with some dealer with no idea what exactly you’re getting and what it’s cut with. The whole war on drugs is a complicated thing, it’s not nearly as simple as saying they’re illegal because their dangerous.

Second, Language is certainly not in the minority from my experience. I know of more people than I can count on two hands who are recreational users with no dependency issues. This is probably a stigma that some people need to get over before society can have any reasonable conversation about drugs. This fabricated idea that everyone who tries them becomes an addict, that they’re all dangerous and that’s why the government is protecting us from them, etc.

[Poe969]

I didnt mean risky because of them being mixed, I meant risky because of what they do to your body both immediately and long-term. I just don't understand why people take the risk and do them. Terrible for your overall health, always a chance of some other crap being mixed in, the off chance that something is added causing a higher risk of addiction and theyre illegal. If anything, I think there should be more of a penalty dealers and users. There are enough legal ways to achieve the desired outcome, or close to it.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I didnt mean risky because of them being mixed, I meant risky because of what they do to your body both immediately and long-term. I just don't understand why people take the risk and do them. Terrible for your overall health, always a chance of some other crap being mixed in, the off chance that something is added causing a higher risk of addiction and theyre illegal. If anything, I think there should be more of a penalty dealers and users. There are enough legal ways to achieve the desired outcome, or close to it.

Because if you do them moderately and properly they are just like any other legal alternative: they are fun.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Firstly, to the “you can’t legalise them because they’re too risky” idea. Most of these drugs are risky because they’re illegal. Instead of knowing what you’re getting from verifiable sources you can trust, you’re often taking a gamble with some dealer with no idea what exactly you’re getting and what it’s cut with. The whole war on drugs is a complicated thing, it’s not nearly as simple as saying they’re illegal because their dangerous.

I didn’t say they were risky because they could be contaminated (although that is true), I said they were risky because they are addictive and people can become dependent on them, often in a destructive way.

I’m no expert though so maybe cocaine is easier to “handle” versus heroin, meth, etc. I agree it’s a complicated issue.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Because if you do them moderately and properly they are just like any other legal alternative: they are fun.

There are drugs that even taken moderately and properly can be dangerous. The jolt to the system of a middle-aged or overweight person by even a small amount of cocaine can cause a non-negligible risk of heart attack. I doubt there's any way cocaine or MDMA would ever meet commercial drug safety standards. The reason some of these drugs were prohibited in the first place was the rampant abuse and addiction evident when they were readily available.

And as we're learning with pot, legalizing a drug doesn't make the street source go away. If someone on the street can distribute and sell it cheaper than the legal, licensed, regulated source (and they almost certainly will be able to), then the most vulnerable or heavy users will continue to get that drug from the street.

I don't see how decriminalization or legalization makes this problem go away. Maybe we could someday synthesize drugs that have much the same effect with much less risk. But there will always be people who want the harder, more dangerous stuff from the street because they desperately want to get wasted.

[Poster]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

There are drugs that even taken moderately and properly can be dangerous. The jolt to the system of a middle-aged or overweight person by even a small amount of cocaine can cause a non-negligible risk of heart attack. I doubt there's any way cocaine or MDMA would ever meet commercial drug safety standards. The reason some of these drugs were prohibited in the first place was the rampant abuse and addiction evident when they were readily available.

And as we're learning with pot, legalizing a drug doesn't make the street source go away. If someone on the street can distribute and sell it cheaper than the legal, licensed, regulated source (and they almost certainly will be able to), then the most vulnerable or heavy users will continue to get that drug from the street.

I don't see how decriminalization or legalization makes this problem go away. Maybe we could someday synthesize drugs that have much the same effect with much less risk. But there will always be people who want the harder, more dangerous stuff from the street because they desperately want to get wasted.

Decriminalization/Legalization puts more resources into prevention, treatment and education.

The less we spend on enforcement/punishment and the more we can spend treating it as a mental/health matter.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Poster

Decriminalization/Legalization puts more resources into prevention, treatment and education.

The less we spend on enforcement/punishment and the more we can spend treating it as a mental/health matter.

Yup, you can see it with weed. Before legalisation there was very little in terms of studying the effects and educating the public, already there is much more (I get ads talking about the risks all the time!).

It also protects the thousands of casual users which may be unknowingly risking death with poorly cut product. It might not do anything supply-wise for addicts dependant on street drugs, but it does for others, and frees up money that can be directed to helping addicts in other ways.

[sureLoss]

Not to mention decriminalization/legalization would take money out of the hands of some of the most violent organizations in the world.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Not to mention decriminalization/legalization would take money out of the hands of some of the most violent organizations in the world.

Yeah, there is a huge personal safety issue when people try to navigate the black market as well. A lot of people end up being robbed, beaten, coerced into prostitution, muling, etc... The prison system isn't necessarily the best place to help addicts either.

People are going to use drugs regardless of the legality, so I personally feel that harm reduction route is the best.