Minneapolis PD Suffocate Unarmed Black Man Who Later Dies in Hospital

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

The bastardization of that idiom makes me cry too.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

I'm advocating for the public to allow the justice system to work through the facts and determine where wrongdoing might have occurred (either by the police or by a civilian). I don't believe that to be a particularly controversial position.

Instead, what I read is a lot of people coming to a lot of conclusions based on incomplete information and shaky-cam phone footage.

Our justice system is clearly far from perfect and does not always arrive at the correct conclusion (guilty people being set free or innocent people being sent to prison).

But it's still the most fair system we've got.

Originally Posted by BoLevi

And the correct response according to this thread is:

outrage first, then investigate what actually happened later.

(I realize that having an itchy trigger finger on an internet-forum is a pretty low consequence thing and it makes people feel validated when they can express outrage.)

But the best course of action is to be rational, not impulsive.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

The bastardization of that idiom makes me cry too.

Hey, to be fair, he’s usually trying to use renting or having to be on CERB as an insult while defending murdering cops. I’d say asking me to meet a kettle is a considerable improvement!

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Some of them hold Black victims to higher standards than White murderers, let alone police. You could read a couple of their posts in isolation and think the two situations we’re talking about is a White 17 year old being naughty by carrying a gun underage, and a Black criminal having his reign of terror ended by heroic cops.

Sad is being generous.

Actually I’m pretty sure you and I both have the same standard for any person with an active warrant who is under arrest. Follow the orders, don’t fight, don’t run, show your hands, get on your knees. If you defend a man wanted for rape, who does not follow these simple commands, you’re condoning his actions.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Are you saying a subject with a known criminal past, an active warrant for raping a female, carrying a knife, scuffling with officers, not complying with orders, is not a threat? Because in the case of Jacob Blake, this is what the police have to go on.

We don’t know what was said, did he threaten them verbally?
“I will kill you pigs” Given what we know, a statement as simple as that , and Blake’s actions that followed (not showing his hands, reaching into his for????) in the heat of battle would escalate this to what happened.

It's not a battle, they are cops not soldiers, they, like everyone else, only get to use lethal force when they are certain their life is at risk, when a guy with a gun they can see points it at them, when a guy with a knife runs at them (and frankly even then I think resorting to lethal force is cowardice and murder but I would lay that at the feet of the US's abysmally lousy police training rather than an individual cop).

A guy with his back to you getting into a car, even with a knife, does not represent a mortal threat.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Actually I’m pretty sure you and I both have the same standard for any person with an active warrant who is under arrest. Follow the orders, don’t fight, don’t run, show your hands, get on your knees. If you defend a man wanted for rape, who does not follow these simple commands, you’re condoning his actions.

Is it possible to be against both rape AND not shooting people in the back 7 times?

Because I'd like to do that.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I actually feel bad for the 17 year old kid (now hear me out) Trump/far right has basically set these people up to think they are actually doing the right thing. He's just a kid but has been brainwashed into thinking he is a patriot or some BS.

You can tell after he shoots the first guy he doesn't know what to do...either help or run

At minimum, his parents should be investigated as accessories to murder. How do you raise a child to turn out like that at 17?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Actually I’m pretty sure you and I both have the same standard for any person with an active warrant who is under arrest. Follow the orders, don’t fight, don’t run, show your hands, get on your knees. If you defend a man wanted for rape, who does not follow these simple commands, you’re condoning his actions.

he wasn't wanted for rape by the way, his ex accused him of going over to her house, taking her car keys and touching her without her consent, that's 3rd degree sexual assault, it covers slapping her arse on the way on the door or actions like that, 2nd degree would include penetration but we aint talking about that here, we are talking about an ex complaining he took the cat and touched her, prior to the ex's accusations Blake had no prior arrests or convictions, clearly death is the only answer

[FlamesAddiction]

Details are important, but the biggest detail is that this is happening all the time. That is the major issue here. The anger isn't over just one person, but a consistent and ongoing problem.

Even if this one case ends up having some contributing factors that partly explain the unwarranted excessive force, the general unrest we are seeing exists because of the bigger picture.

It is just an undeniable fact that black people are disproportionately impacted by police brutality. Not all of the victims are going to be upstanding citizens, but that shouldn't take away from the larger issue.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

It's not a battle, they are cops not soldiers, they, like everyone else, only get to use lethal force when they are certain their life is at risk, when a guy with a gun they can see points it at them, when a guy with a knife runs at them (and frankly even then I think resorting to lethal force is cowardice and murder but I would lay that at the feet of the US's abysmally lousy police training rather than an individual cop).

A guy with his back to you getting into a car, even with a knife, does not represent a mortal threat.

So who gets to determine if their lives are in danger? The Monday morning social worker?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1298330729890242561

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Yoho

So who gets to determine if their lives are in danger? The Monday morning social worker?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1298330729890242561

A judge during a murder trial, the same way you or I would be dealt with

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

It's not a battle, they are cops not soldiers, they, like everyone else, only get to use lethal force when they are certain their life is at risk, when a guy with a gun they can see points it at them, when a guy with a knife runs at them (and frankly even then I think resorting to lethal force is cowardice and murder but I would lay that at the feet of the US's abysmally lousy police training rather than an individual cop).

A guy with his back to you getting into a car, even with a knife, does not represent a mortal threat.

How do you know they weren't certain their life was at risk?

You don't know everything about the case, and until you do, you are simply making uninformed conclusions.

[Elkyiv]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

A judge during a murder trial, the same way you or I would be dealt with

So for you, the issue really is not that they shot him, but that they aren't charged?

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

he wasn't wanted for rape by the way, his ex accused him of going over to her house, taking her car keys and touching her without her consent, that's 3rd degree sexual assault, it covers slapping her arse on the way on the door or actions like that, 2nd degree would include penetration but we aint talking about that here, we are talking about an ex complaining he took the cat and touched her, prior to the ex's accusations Blake had no prior arrests or convictions, clearly death is the only answer

Not claiming to be an expert in Wisconsin law but 3 degree sexual assault appears to be a little more serious then a slap on the butt. Unless I’m reading this wrong or missing something.

https://ndaa.org/wp-content/uploads/...ault-chart.pdf

[Elkyiv]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

It's not a battle, they are cops not soldiers, they, like everyone else, only get to use lethal force when they are certain their life is at risk, when a guy with a gun they can see points it at them, when a guy with a knife runs at them (and frankly even then I think resorting to lethal force is cowardice and murder but I would lay that at the feet of the US's abysmally lousy police training rather than an individual cop).

A guy with his back to you getting into a car, even with a knife, does not represent a mortal threat.

The problem with this thinking is that waiting until a gun is pointed at you can be too late. In a nation where there are nearly 400 million firearms, I can see why they're impatient.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Elkyiv

So for you, the issue really is not that they shot him, but that they aren't charged?

yes, because the reason US police gun down people without thought is because they are all but immune from prosecution, if they, like you or I, knew that they would be of to jail for killing someone that wasn't doing as they were told (and god knows how many cyclists I would have killed for that if I was given that kind of immunity) then everything about the US police would change, their training would change.

They have been taught to shoot first because they can legally

[ResAlien]

Nvm. Good luck with the justifications.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by Elkyiv

So for you, the issue really is not that they shot him, but that they aren't charged?

For a lot of the woke masses this would not be sufficient. Even a conviction is not sufficient.

The argument is that the presence of the cops and any police brutality against people of color (punished or otherwise) is the result of systemic racism. This is racism which is the responsibility of all people who are not minorities whether you know it or not. It's the progressive version of original sin.

Ergo, all people who are not people of color, latinx, etc, are directly responsible for police brutality.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Not claiming to be an expert in Wisconsin law but 3 degree sexual assault appears to be a little more serious then a slap on the butt. Unless I’m reading this wrong or missing something.

https://ndaa.org/wp-content/uploads/...ault-chart.pdf

my bad 3rd is usually touching and she claimed he touched her

[troutman]

Lakers and Clippers have voted to boycott NBA playoffs.