Sam Bennett at center - Why I Do Not Believe It Was A Failure

[Rick M.]

Better linemates and more ice time. He also seems to be better suited to playing centre.

[Roof-Daddy]

I was 100% ready for Bennett to be shipped off for a couple draft picks this off season, I was done with him. I still won't be upset if they manage to sell high on him, especially if they bring in a legit top 6 C. However, after that playoff showing, if they want to give it another season that's fine too.

But for the love of god, if they decide to keep him only to play him as a 4th line C with scrub wingers or even worse, plug him in as a winger with ####ty line mates I swear to christ I will friggin lose my mind.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Bingo

He played very well for ten games.

Many of us think that they should investigate what that means in a regular season by giving him the role he had in the playoffs.

I don't see too many suggesting he should take over the second line to start camp.

But picking on his face offs? Bennett was ahead of Backlund and nestled right into the mix with Derek Ryan, only Monahan and Lucic were above the 50% point.

If you look at the the last three regular seasons Sam Bennett is 2nd to only Ryan at 53% in the dot.

Face offs aren't a Sam Bennett issue ... when his arm isn't mangled anyway.

Honestly don't get why anyone would want to throw cold water on the chance a disappointing high pick may have righted the ship and may have a bigger contribution than fourth line energy player going forward.

Seriously? You don't understand why anyone would be skeptical of this based on history? For all the crying going on around here about wanting the team to get better, including jettisoning the top players on the team, there are an awful lot of people who are willing to ignore YEARS of bad play from Sam Bennett because of a few games in a really weird playoff tournament, and promote him into positions that he has shown he is incapable of playing.

You supposedly coach. Do you not learn from past player behavior, or do you allow the same players to go out game-after-game and hurt your team? At some point you learn, and you maintain a very healthy level of skepticism about those players. They may get on string where they play well, but you keep them on a short leash looking for the first hint of previous behaviors and attempt to curb them. I am all for giving a player some latitude, but when does that same guy ####ting the bed and contributing to a dud finally make you wake up and say enough is enough? That's where we are IMO. It's go time, and Sam Bennett better show up at training camp ready to play this exact same way or the Flames would be way better off moving on from him. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Bennett is going on opportunity three. He better perform.

My big question for the Bennett Bros, what happens if he comes to camp and is the same old Sam Bennett? At a time when this team is need of change are you willing to gamble that Bennett is capable of playing at this level the majority of the time? Because if he plays as he has each of the past four seasons, he's not going to move the needle and the team remains stagnant. There is risk with every decision, and is this risk the team can accept and you're willing to accept? I see next year as Bennett's make or break with the Flames. He either performs, or he's traded early to some other team who hopes they can reclaim a player. Is that something you can accept?

[BigErnSalute_16]

Originally Posted by New Era

What the team believes - and what that is ultimately determines the outcome - that Sam Bennett is more the player we see for an abbreviated period during the post season, or the player we see during the regular season, then the decision is easy. Bennett has shown that he might be able to contribute in the third line center role (with Lucic taking the draws). He does not have the offensive upside or talent to play in the top six, and definitely does not have the ability to win a faceoff when it matters, so his effectiveness is limited to that crash and bang role. That means he can't replace Monahan in any shape or fashion. If the team believes that they need to improve on Monahan, then the natural target is Backlund for replacement. He has a fairly hefty salary that is not suited for the third line. He also doesn't have that offensive consistency to be the second line guy. So if Bennett is the answer to a question, it is the third line. That is where he can re-invent himself and contribute to winner. Anything higher is people really kidding themselves. Again, this is all on what the team believes. They have to weigh his history and his performance to determine the length of rope they are willing to give him. They've seen this movie before, so I think if they have any optimism it is well guarded.

Just a reminder of a major deficiency for Bennett. Faceoff winning percentages in his 9 games of awesomeness. 28.3% OZ, 50.0% NZ, 46.2 DZ For comparison, Monahan: 59.3% OZ, 51.9% NZ, 57.1 DZ. Lucic: 72.2% OZ, 33.3% NZ, 87.5 DZ.

Originally Posted by flamesgod

Lucic was taking the face offs because Bennett tore his tricep.

And if I remember correctly in game 5 against the stars when we were trying to tie it up late Bennett won two or three key face-offs in a row in Dallas' end to give his team a shot.

[Flash Walken]

It might be time to grab a coffee and some fresh air, Lanny

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

It might be time to grab a coffee and some fresh air, Lanny

Shouldn't you be over at Krakenpuck.com, Flash?

[ComixZone]

You keep coming back and keep saying the same thing while not addressing some simple truths.

Sam Bennett's underlying numbers have been fairly strong for years, it just hasn't translated to points/goals due to horrid on-ice shooting % of his entire line. His entire line has been made up bad linemates for years. So bad that they were out of the league, being bought out, or are now Edmonton Oilers (hi James, Alex) leeching points off McDavid and Draisaitl.

The improvement in linemates alone will see Sam Bennett's strong underlying numbers translate to improved offensive performance, likely performance that lines up more closely to what those underlying numbers have told us for a while - that Sam Bennett isn't bad. The change to centre ice will also likely see his game improve because by the nature of the role - you're covering more ice and getting more touches of the puck (usually), something that should benefit what we've seen of Sam's game. "The same old Sam Bennett" has been the best player on his line every season since his rookie year ended. It would be foolish to remove the best part of the poor depth on a line - you should instead add to the best part you've got there. Do you think Sam Bennett actively made James Neal horrible? Or Mark Jankowski? Or Troy Brouwer? Brouwer and Neal were so bad they got punted out of the top-six because they were sinking those lines. You then asked Bennett to carry them when others couldn't. Mark Jankowski will likely be a PTO, if anything, next season.

I can't believe you bring up training camp when you ignore the playoffs as a small sample size. You're upside down and inside out. If the team does in fact throw Bennett on the 4th line wing with a non-NHL quality centre, yep he's going to struggle. Notice how Derek Ryan's 5v5 points dried up when he was cast onto the 4th line? Almost as if line-mates do in fact have an impact on production.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by foofighter15

if Bennett is staying at centre I can't see it being with Lucic for the entire season. Looch can't play like that for 82 games.
Next year I want to see Pelltier - Bennett - Dube. That line will be deadly

Pelletier has yet to play in the NHL. We don't even know if he is capable of being an NHLer. He was a late 1st round pick, hardly a lock to be a regular. Lucic looked good on that line and I am not worried about his effectiveness in that role over 82 games.... however, we may not see a regular season for a little while.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

You keep coming back and keep saying the same thing while not addressing some simple truths.

Sam Bennett's underlying numbers have been fairly strong for years, it just hasn't translated to points/goals due to horrid on-ice shooting % of his entire line. His entire line has been made up bad linemates for years. So bad that they were out of the league, being bought out, or are now Edmonton Oilers (hi James, Alex) leeching points off McDavid and Draisaitl.

The improvement in linemates alone will see Sam Bennett's strong underlying numbers translate to improved offensive performance, likely performance that lines up more closely to what those underlying numbers have told us for a while - that Sam Bennett isn't bad. The change to centre ice will also likely see his game improve because by the nature of the role - you're covering more ice and getting more touches of the puck (usually), something that should benefit what we've seen of Sam's game. "The same old Sam Bennett" has been the best player on his line every season since his rookie year ended. It would be foolish to remove the best part of the poor depth on a line - you should instead add to the best part you've got there. Do you think Sam Bennett actively made James Neal horrible? Or Mark Jankowski? Or Troy Brouwer? Brouwer and Neal were so bad they got punted out of the top-six because they were sinking those lines. You then asked Bennett to carry them when others couldn't. Mark Jankowski will likely be a PTO, if anything, next season.

I can't believe you bring up training camp when you ignore the playoffs as a small sample size. You're upside down and inside out. If the team does in fact throw Bennett on the 4th line wing with a non-NHL quality centre, yep he's going to struggle. Notice how Derek Ryan's 5v5 points dried up when he was cast onto the 4th line? Almost as if line-mates do in fact have an impact on performance.

Yeah. I get a kick out of the “what if?” questions

We don’t need to even know the end of that question to know the answer.

If new information didn’t change the narrative, you can expect the same people will keep saying the same things.

[Joborule]

There's no reason Bennett should not be a full time, top 9 centre for at least the first quarter of the next season. Give him the opportunity to establish himself permanently as a centre for this team going forward, and possibly climb the centre depth chart.

Let him finally have a legit chance in seeing what his potential is.

[Flash Walken]

Big part of Bennett getting Top 9 Icetime next season will be the fall off in play of Ryan.

I like Ryan, but the consistent output of his minutes hasn't been great for the last season.

[Bonded]

Just ride him at #3C for the start of next season. If he goes back to sucking then it what it is

[BigErnSalute_16]

I think we are actually super close to having a very effective bottom six.

x - Bennett - Dube, and Lucic - Ryan - x are 2/3rds of a great bottom six imo. If, say, we trade gaudreau and add hall, I could see a top six forward coming back in the gaudreau trade. Either that person slips onto Bennett's wing or pushes Mangiapane down to it. Both would be fantastic options.

Then as for the fourth line, Lucic - Ryan reminds me a bit of Hathaway - Ryan, now all we need to do is find our next Mangiapane, whether that is Pelletier, Gawdin, Phillips, or a prospect that comes with a Gaudreau trade all of a sudden that is 4 lines with 0 dead weight on them.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Big part of Bennett getting Top 9 Icetime next season will be the fall off in play of Ryan.

I like Ryan, but the consistent output of his minutes hasn't been great for the last season.

I wonder if Ryan will be here next year. Bennett's playoff performance, coupled with Tree wanting to improve/change the team could make Ryan a cap-casualty in my eyes. We'll see if it happens, but Ryan looks like a perfect pick-up for a rebuilding team. Acquire him for a 3rd or 4th, and then eat half his salary and move him for a 2nd or 3rd at the deadline.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by New Era

Shouldn't you be over at Krakenpuck.com, Flash?

Nah, I'm good.

You're going down the ricardo path mon ami.

Faceoffs? Ok man, die on that hill, I'm just trying to throw you a life preserver. Don't fall into the upside down.

You look like an irrational lunatic when you post about Bennett.

[Enoch Root]

I don't know how you do it, but it would be great to move Ryan - we could use the cap space. Unlikely though, so we ride him out for the final year of his contract. But yeah, we could really use an extra $2m (his salary minus a replacement)

[ForeverFlameFan]

Why do we keep trying to trade Ryan? All he does is make our team better. He helped regain Lucic’s confidence back, got Dube on another level in his game. It was because of Ryan that the Lucic - Bennett - Dube line already had 2/3 members clicking, all Bennett needed to do now was play his game. And he did, and we saw a dominant line. That was because of Ryan. He also made the 4th line a decent thing to watch when we’d ice freaking Rinaldo with him.

If anyone in the top 9 goes now next season, it would be nice to just have Ryan slot right in. He’s our new Swiss Army knife needed when an injury or player falters.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I wonder if Ryan will be here next year. Bennett's playoff performance, coupled with Tree wanting to improve/change the team could make Ryan a cap-casualty in my eyes. We'll see if it happens, but Ryan looks like a perfect pick-up for a rebuilding team. Acquire him for a 3rd or 4th, and then eat half his salary and move him for a 2nd or 3rd at the deadline.

Difficult contract to move.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by New Era

Seriously? You don't understand why anyone would be skeptical of this based on history? For all the crying going on around here about wanting the team to get better, including jettisoning the top players on the team, there are an awful lot of people who are willing to ignore YEARS of bad play from Sam Bennett because of a few games in a really weird playoff tournament, and promote him into positions that he has shown he is incapable of playing.

I don't think many if anyone is saying Bennett is a slam dunk to repeat what he's done in the playoffs in the regular season. I'm not seeing that at all, and it's certainly not what I'm saying.

But it's not a good time to move a guy unless a team over pays because he may have taken a step and with that you could lose that trade massively.

He's only 23 ... this isn't a 32 year old with a good 10 game stretch.

But why do you want Bennett not to be good so badly? Doesn't that strike you as odd when you step back from things?

Originally Posted by New Era

You supposedly coach. Do you not learn from past player behavior, or do you allow the same players to go out game-after-game and hurt your team? At some point you learn, and you maintain a very healthy level of skepticism about those players. They may get on string where they play well, but you keep them on a short leash looking for the first hint of previous behaviors and attempt to curb them. I am all for giving a player some latitude, but when does that same guy ####ting the bed and contributing to a dud finally make you wake up and say enough is enough? That's where we are IMO. It's go time, and Sam Bennett better show up at training camp ready to play this exact same way or the Flames would be way better off moving on from him. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Bennett is going on opportunity three. He better perform.

Supposedly? What's the intent of that or than a person that just likes an internet fight?

Are you saying I haven't coached? Made it up for years? That's quite an insinuation.

Secondly ... I coach kids, not pro athletes. If I approach kids with a view that they're hurting my team, have skepticism and a short leash I wouldn't be a guy you'd want coaching your kids.

Originally Posted by New Era

My big question for the Bennett Bros, what happens if he comes to camp and is the same old Sam Bennett? At a time when this team is need of change are you willing to gamble that Bennett is capable of playing at this level the majority of the time? Because if he plays as he has each of the past four seasons, he's not going to move the needle and the team remains stagnant. There is risk with every decision, and is this risk the team can accept and you're willing to accept? I see next year as Bennett's make or break with the Flames. He either performs, or he's traded early to some other team who hopes they can reclaim a player. Is that something you can accept?

He may be 15 point Sam Bennett again.

15 point Sam Bennett is fine at his current salary level if he plays a physical role, sticks up for his teammates and elevates in the playoffs though.

However, I'd be worried about his next contract if that was the case and would be thinking to move him before the start of the next season if that was the case.

If that makes me a BennettBros than what the heck are you? Rooting against a team's players to not perform so you can say ha ha on a message board is a strange course to sail.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Why do we keep trying to trade Ryan? All he does is make our team better. He helped regain Lucic’s confidence back, got Dube on another level in his game. It was because of Ryan that the Lucic - Bennett - Dube line already had 2/3 members clicking, all Bennett needed to do now was play his game. And he did, and we saw a dominant line. That was because of Ryan. He also made the 4th line a decent thing to watch when we’d ice freaking Rinaldo with him.

If anyone in the top 9 goes now next season, it would be nice to just have Ryan slot right in. He’s our new Swiss Army knife needed when an injury or player falters.

He has been great. But he is on the inevitable downslope of his career. I would love to see it, but I doubt he is value for his contract this year coming. And I will be shocked if he is re-signed.