[News] Caps fire Head Coach Todd Reirden. UPD: Pens hire Reirden as an assistant coach

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

How would we know one way or the other? To your mind what does it look like when a coach campaigns to return to the NHL?

That's my point. No one knows what his motivation or intentions are, but a lot of people suggest that not working the NHL right now means something.

Hartley is going on 60 years old. While not terribly old for a coach, there are younger coaches competing for positions. He likely has another 5-10 years of peak earning potential left, so I don't see him taking a "show me" coaching position in the NHL.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Good teams know what they are doing!

Lose their head coach right after they finally win in the playoffs after years of choking?

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Lose their head coach right after they finally win in the playoffs after years of choking?

We should be so lucky.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Killing it in Russia.

Hartley gets too much hate around here IMO. He has won a championship in every league he has coached in (QMJHL, AHL, NHL, Swiss League), with the expectation of the KHL, where he just made the finals in his first year (playoffs cancelled this year, but the team was a favourite again).

I don't think he deserves the lack of respect he gets.

Feaster and Hartley were very close friends which always put a question mark over the hire for me. There were rumors Montreal was interested but I tend to believe Feaster was only NHL GM who would have hired him.

[Corral]

Calgary is a graveyard for coaches. Nobody with established credentials is coming here

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Corral

Calgary is a graveyard for coaches. Nobody with established credentials is coming here

There are people who relish challenges.

Being the guy who finally succeeds with this group could be a ticket to coaching stardom.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Corral

Calgary is a graveyard for coaches. Nobody with established credentials is coming here

I don’t buy that.

There are only 32 of these jobs available. If there’s a head coach still looking for work, he will consider any NHL club including us.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I don’t buy that.

There are only 32 of these jobs available. If there’s a head coach still looking for work, he will consider any NHL club including us.

Consider for a minute, but then immediately tell themselves if they came here it would take them out of the running for Seattle.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Examples?

He would not let aging warrior, on the back 9 of his career, Cory Sarich reverse the puck. One D to D pass and out. That’s just awful stuff.


Also he reportedly told Scott Parker in Colorado that he would be smelling chocolate fumes, his next step was going to in Hershey.

Scott Parker’s claims came up, I believe, as part of that lawsuit against the NHL from goons who were encouraged to fight

http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/...451/story.html

He was a junior B goalie trying to tell me how to fight,” Parker told the Denver Post. “He was always just degrading me. Not to be a (wimp), but he was a bully. And he could be because he was in a position of authority. What was I supposed to do as a rookie? Go tell him ‘(expletive) you’? I did that stuff at the end of my career, but at the beginning of my career I was just a chess piece to him.”

Hartley was quick to defend himself when asked about Parker’s comments Tuesday at the Scotiabank Saddledome.

“I was made aware of that report long ago,” said Hartley who won a Stanley Cup with the Avalanche and spent nearly five seasons at the helm from 1998-99 to 2002-03. “All coaches, but I’ll speak for myself because my name is there, we set expectations. We create standards. There’s not a player I’ve coached that I didn’t try to make better. I’ve never bullied anyone.

“I can be a demanding coach. But I want the best for my players. For me, that’s the end of the story.”

Flames winger Lee Stempniak said demanding coaches don’t necessarily translate into being bullies.

“I think that’s a coach’s job, to wring every last bit of talent out of a player,” he said. “First, as a player, you want a coach that believes you have more and tries to help you reach your potential. I think every coach deep down wants the best for his players and is just trying to motivate them.

“I think, at the end of the day, the coaches want the same things the players want. It’s just to be the best you can be and maximizing your potential.”

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I don’t buy that.

There are only 32 of these jobs available. If there’s a head coach still looking for work, he will consider any NHL club including us.

Agree.

If a guy like Boudreau was willing to coach a depleted Minnesota team, he'd definitely be willing to coach the Flames.

Gallant joined an expansion team with low expectation.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

He would not let aging warrior, on the back 9 of his career, Cory Sarich reverse the puck. One D to D pass and out. That’s just awful stuff.


Also he reportedly told Scott Parker in Colorado that he would be smelling chocolate fumes, his next step was going to in Hershey.

Scott Parker’s claims came up, I believe, as part of that lawsuit against the NHL from goons who were encouraged to fight

http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/...451/story.html

I heard he was a porcupine at all the balloon parties too.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I don't doubt that Hartley had some very tense moments with some players, and that's why he probably won't be a head coach in the NHL in the future. I don't know how much of a 'bully' he was, what his methods were, etc., but I do believe that this is MOST of the reason that he was let go by Treliving.



I also think that there were a lot of players that really enjoyed playing under Hartley - including Gaudreau. After Hartley's dismissal, Gaudreau still went to his hockey camps in the off-season.


Another player that really liked playing under Hartley? Tanguay. I remember he used to call Hartley when things got rough for him in Montreal and Tampa. He also campaigned to get Hartley here in Calgary, IIRC.



Unless you were in the locker room, you probably don't know how much of a bully Hartley was, or how good of a person he was. He did genuinely seem to care about his players, but I am sure there were tonnes of guys that couldn't stand him or his methods, which I don't doubt (given all the stories that have come out about well known coaches lately).


I do think he was the best coach for the Flames since Darryl Sutter, and I still do not think his system was 'unsustainable' given the roster. I am sure that once this roster improved, the system would have undergone some tweaks, and the analytics would have vastly improved as well. Flames were in no way looked upon as a 'contender' that year, just a team that was rebuilding. He still got them through a veteran - but sucky - Vancouver Canucks team and into the second round. Unexpectedly. Since the Flames have become a 'good team', they have not been able to match that performance. He will always go down as one of the better coaches that Calgary has had, especially in the last 20 years.


I myself don't want Reirden. That Caps team was not ready to play, were not engaged fully, didn't have much of a response or a fight against the Islanders. Reirden didn't seem to have any answers.


The more I think about it, the more I want Darryl Sutter, actually. He always seemed to have a way to counter the opposition. His teams - especially at the start of his tenures - always seemed to play hard and at least meet the expectations, if not drastically exceed them.


Laviolette or Darryl for me. Gallant is my third choice - becoming more distant as I think of it. Boudreau seems exactly the coach that I don't want, to be honest. Once you get past his 'awesome regular season record', he was the head coach of some really good teams, and what successes has he had?


I really hope that Treliving (assuming of course that he is retained, which I do expect him to be) doesn't go to yet another 'Babcock Disciple'. Babcock won because he had great teams - period. Overrated coach IMO, and always has been. How that guy has somehow been elevated to the greatest coach, with a whole philosophy and clones... I haven't seen him do anything special in Toronto - if anything, I think they were worse with him. Sullivan is one of his clones, so I guess there's that, and it wasn't JUST him having a great team - he did turn that team around that season. Maybe he is and will be the only disciple to actually be considered a good coach.


This is the one area where I think the Flames are the absolute weakest organizationally - coaching.



I think a good coach can hide a lot of warts and holes on a team, just like a great goalie can.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

He would not let aging warrior, on the back 9 of his career, Cory Sarich reverse the puck. One D to D pass and out. That’s just awful stuff.


Also he reportedly told Scott Parker in Colorado that he would be smelling chocolate fumes, his next step was going to in Hershey.

Scott Parker’s claims came up, I believe, as part of that lawsuit against the NHL from goons who were encouraged to fight

http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/...451/story.html

The first example can be debated as a bad strategy (I am not making an opinion), but it is not bullying or being mean.

The second example is pretty mild and was just a way to motivate the player. There is nothing wrong with telling players that if they don't play well, they will be sent to the minors. It was an accepted part of the game, that was not Hartley's fault. There wasn't a coach in the league at that time that didn't expect their goons to fight.

[mile]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The first example can be debated as a bad strategy (I am not making an opinion), but it is not bullying or being mean.

The second example is pretty mild and was just a way to motivate the player. There is nothing wrong with telling players that if they don't play well, they will be sent to the minors. It was an accepted part of the game, that was not Hartley's fault. There wasn't a coach in the league at that time that didn't expect their goons to fight.

Those stories aren't good examples.

The big story I remember about Hartley was him making Sven cry. I think Shane O'Brien talked about how he confronted Hartley over his treatment of Sven during his rookie year on Spittin Chiclet, with Hartley responding to SOB telling him he was fat and terrible. Yeah, the terrible part was true but that sounds like a dickish way to address someone who is standing up for a teammate.

IIRC the thing with Sarich was him saying that when he was scratched for 11 straight games and knew he wasn't getting into the lineup any time soon, Hartley unexpectedly dresses after finding out he had beers during golf non-game day, seemingly to play mind games.

It seemed like if Hartley didn't like a player for whatever reason, he would make it personal and bury them with very little chance of changing his mind. It happened with Sven and almost with Backlund in 2013-14 when Backlund was stapled to the 4th line and trade rumors were swirling around him. I remembered how miserable he looked during that stretch.

[Geeoff]

Hartley is very blunt, so I can see how that could rub people the wrong way. I bet Tortorella would have similar stories about him. He sticks around the league because his teams tend to win games, though.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

Hartley is very blunt, so I can see how that could rub people the wrong way. I bet Tortorella would have similar stories about him. He sticks around the league because his teams tend to win games, though.

I don't think Hartley and Torts are comparables. Torts is hard on players but I don't think he has a reputation of being mean spirited or bullying players. Regardless why are we still discussing Hartley?

[868904]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Darryl will take Brad’s call at 3am. He won’t say much to the media but to others he’s as stand-up a guy as a guy can be.

I just feel like Darryl will take it as coach meddling and not appreciate it.

But sounds like some of know Darryl personally and think he’d be fine with it so YAY, let’s get it done, I want Darryl to be the coach!

Darryl loves tough teams and I feel like he’s got a young nucleus here to form that kind of team identity for the Flames in Tkachuk, Bennett, Anderson aided by the old man Lucic. Ask Tre to bring in a few more of this type who can also play, say Josh Anderson, and we can have a team that Flames fans want.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by mile

Those stories aren't good examples.

The big story I remember about Hartley was him making Sven cry. I think Shane O'Brien talked about how he confronted Hartley over his treatment of Sven during his rookie year on Spittin Chiclet, with Hartley responding to SOB telling him he was fat and terrible. Yeah, the terrible part was true but that sounds like a dickish way to address someone who is standing up for a teammate.

IIRC the thing with Sarich was him saying that when he was scratched for 11 straight games and knew he wasn't getting into the lineup any time soon, Hartley unexpectedly dresses after finding out he had beers during golf non-game day, seemingly to play mind games.

It seemed like if Hartley didn't like a player for whatever reason, he would make it personal and bury them with very little chance of changing his mind. It happened with Sven and almost with Backlund in 2013-14 when Backlund was stapled to the 4th line and trade rumors were swirling around him. I remembered how miserable he looked during that stretch.

Yeah, that would suck for Baertschi. Although, Hartley coached hundreds of players and I am sure most never cried. Baertschi did seem to have some entitlement issues though, and OBrien was notoriously lazy.

There seems to be a lot of people wanting Laviolette to come to Calgary, but he is another one that is known to be really hard on his players and has been accused of bullying and abuse. There was a report a while back of him calling players little bitches, which is both chauvinistic and rude, not to mention punching them in the head. Anyone who thinks Hartley was over the line, would be a hypocrite if they would even consider Laviolette now. Ruff and Torts are also known to be extremely confrontational and scary to approach as players.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

...There seems to be a lot of people wanting Laviolette to come to Calgary, but he is another one that is known to be really hard on his players and has been accused of bullying and abuse. There was a report a while back of him calling players little bitches, which is both chauvinistic and rude, not to mention punching them in the head. Anyone who thinks Hartley was over the line, would be a hypocrite if they would even consider Laviolette now. Ruff and Torts are also known to be extremely confrontational and scary to approach as players.

I think you keep glossing over a fundamental point in this discussion: the NHL by-and-large has made it abundantly clear that they DO NOT WANT Bob Hartley back in the League. Stories and rumors are just that, but I think the collective response within the NHL to this guy speaks volumes as to his character and his reputation. No, we clearly do not have all the facts, but it seems obvious to me that there is a dark history behind Hartley that is ominous enough to ward off virtually every potential North American suitor.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

Hartley is very blunt, so I can see how that could rub people the wrong way. I bet Tortorella would have similar stories about him. He sticks around the league because his teams tend to win games, though.

Torts’ players love him. Hartley’s hate him (including Calgary’s star players).