2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[Flash Walken]

Trying to get Ekblad for Gaudreau is a much more interesting wrinkle as Hoffman and Dadonov are both pending Free Agents.

A team willing to take matheson might have the inside track on that deal as well.

Major components:

Gaudreau + Hanifin for Ekblad + Matheson + ?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Trading Gaudreau for futures and not signing hall is the best play out there. Maintaining cap flexibility to take on bad contracts for serious asset value is the best play out there. Taking on David Backes earned Anaheim a 1st round pick and a prospect all for moving a player they weren't committed to long term anyway.

Helps you bottom out, removes any rose coloured ideas you have about the roster. Begins a commitment to dismantling this failed re-tool without a 2015 run jeopardizing your internal structure.

Trading a draft pick for the right to pay taylor hall 56 million dollars does the opposite of those things.

That depends on what your goal is. If your goal is to compete now, none of what you've said in this post is the best play, and I would bet ownership wants to continue to try and compete.

I think they should rebuild myself.

[Roof-Daddy]

The Flames need a sure fire #1 Dman to build around, getting Ekblad would be fantastic.

I don't see the Panthers moving him though. They will move other Dmen to clear salary.

[AC]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Let's use the msot recent hall rumours as an example.

Arizona offered a different quantity of assets than what the Flames offered New Jersey.

let's assume the two offers are on their face identical in terms of value.

New Jersey picked the offer that worked better for them.

Why didn't the flames then just increase the value of their offer? Even if they were willing to, would the combination of assets work for New Jersey or would they have taken a lesser total asset package of assets they wanted vs. a more valuable asset package of things they didn't necessarily want.

But that argument makes the assumption that both Calgary and Arizona made only one offer and NJ just had to pick between them.

Why assume they didn't increase their offer as time went on, or as they were made aware of the other team's interest?

Given the nature of negotiations in general, there's a good chance that Arizona increased their offer because of Calgary's interest in Hall, and conversely that the Flames increased their offer to NJ as well to try and keep up.

It's the relationship of value to supply and demand.

[IrishSpring2013]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Couple that with:

Johnny Gaudreau + David Rittich for New Jersey's 7th Overall pick. Gives New Jersey their top line winger as well as a goalie to be in a tandem with Blackwood.

Understandably everyone is frustrated with Gaudreau, add in contact issues and moving him is a no brainer.. But that is highway robbery for New Jersey.

Despite issues Gaudreau is still a top line winger, and those don't move for a single 1st round pick outside the top five. If the Devils add their Vancouver 1st or the higher Coyotes first you have a better deal.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by IrishSpring2013

Understandably everyone is frustrated with Gaudreau, add in contact issues and moving him is a no brainer.. But that is highway robbery for New Jersey.

Despite issues Gaudreau is still a top line winger, and those don't move for a single 1st round pick outside the top five. If the Devils add their Vancouver 1st or the higher Coyotes first you have a better deal.

Is it? I know the risks in moving him for a pick - but this is strong draft.

Sure, I'd be happy to get more from New Jersey - and actual trade negotiations would see that come through perhaps. But my main point is to target that 7th overall above all else. I think you're getting a high impact centre at that spot.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Let's use the msot recent hall rumours as an example.

Arizona offered a different quantity of assets than what the Flames offered New Jersey.

let's assume the two offers are on their face identical in terms of value.

New Jersey picked the offer that worked better for them.

Why didn't the flames then just increase the value of their offer? Even if they were willing to, would the combination of assets work for New Jersey or would they have taken a lesser total asset package of assets they wanted vs. a more valuable asset package of things they didn't necessarily want.

What does this have to do with New Jersey not getting offers due to “too many LW’rs?” Calgary didn’t deliberately low ball them as you were alluding to in the post I responded to. You just said it yourself, they took the offer that worked for them.

Edit: also who said this would improve Gaudreau’s value? It doesn’t do anything to his value. It helps the Flames decision making.

[Flash Walken]

New Jersey had the constraint of time. Halls contract was expiring at which point they would lose him for nothing.

Adding an 8 million dollar winger also adds a time constraint, as the team needs to subtract an appropriate level of cap, not just before the start of next season, but before they can go out and sign a multitude of replacement players to fill out the roster or conduct further trades.

If you don't have a handle on your cap situation you can't go into a free agency ready to sign some replacements that are your Plan As, you're forced to play musical chairs to sign what's left over.

That's a. If reason why I think the flames will try to do a couple.of deals that turn 1 elite player into 2 good but not elite players.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Saqe

If Treliving decides to just re-tool i.e. move Gaudreau and keep Monahan, Gio (re-sign Brodie) and other lesser core pieces, the only #1 Center that's realistically available would be Kopitar. I don't see anything else out there that would make sense for the other team or be a clear upgrade on Monahan.

I could see the Flames taking a run at Getzlaf, hoping for an Eric Staal like resurgence.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by AC

But that argument makes the assumption that both Calgary and Arizona made only one offer and NJ just had to pick between them.

Why assume they didn't increase their offer as time went on, or as they were made aware of the other team's interest?

Given the nature of negotiations in general, there's a good chance that Arizona increased their offer because of Calgary's interest in Hall, and conversely that the Flames increased their offer to NJ as well to try and keep up.

It's the relationship of value to supply and demand.

I'm not assuming that, I'm assuming the last set of proposals were the most each team was willing to offer.

It's a thought experiment, and it happens all the time.

The reported deal the flames offered for Freddy Anderson for example, or the offer for mark stone or cam Talbot when he was with the rangers, or when Calgary tried to deal Cammalleri at the deadline.

Ultimately there are prices perceived as too high and teams often favour not paying that price when they feel it's too high.

If you have 25% of your cap tied up in 3 wingers, if I am the general manager of another team knowing the flames are really motivated to move Gaudreau because of how the season went and the cap bind they find themselves in, I'm using that against them in a trade.

After all, if I am an opposition GM I am trying to retain as many of my own assets as possible, right?

So at some point in the negotiations with New Jersey, Yrrliving made the decision that whatever deal New Jersey said they wanted from the Flames to send Hall to Calgary instead of Phoenix was not worth it.

Other GMs are likely to feel the same way, especially if there are options available to them which their almost certainly will be because there are every year.

However, if the flames indicate they are more than happy to wait for the best deal on Gaudreau and come back with the same team as last year, maybe I pay up a little bit knowing Gaudreau is my best option and the Flames could very well just sit on him until the right trade scenario arrives.

[Heavy Jack]

Not advocating trading Tkachuk but reading the Ottawa proposal earlier got me thinking what would it take to get the 3rd and the 5th knowing that uniting the Tkachuk bros would be a pretty powerful trade chip.

Tkachuk + Mangiapane + 19th overall

For

3rd overall + 5th overall + White

Is that close? Would anyone consider it?

At that point you could still deal Monahan + Kylington for Cozens + 8th and then see if you could pair the 2 of those 3 picks to move even further up any try and get Byfield. 8th + 3rd to LA for 2nd/Byfield and get lucky with Rossi at 5th!? Rossi and Byfield coupled with Cozens and a 24 YO Colin White and Sam Bennett could position our Center depth extremely well for the future.

[AC]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

If you have 25% of your cap tied up in 3 wingers, if I am the general manager of another team knowing the flames are really motivated to move Gaudreau because of how the season went and the cap bind they find themselves in, I'm using that against them in a trade.

I think a team can only use that motivation to move Gaudreau against Calgary if they're the only possible destination (due to a NMC for example). If there are multiple teams interested in Gaudreau, then I think that leverage disappears as a bidding war ramps up.

[flamesforcup]

Does anyone remember how much chemistry Hall and Gaudreau had in the allstar game? Granted its just an allstar game but i would love to see them together. I dont know why Gaudreau gets all the trade talk when its Monahan who is clearly the inferior player and on the more important position. I would trade Monahan plus for another top 6 centre and keep Gaudreau.

Imagine these 2 lines:

Gaudreau-Bennett-Hall (the 2 elite wingers make up for the lower end centre, and who knows maybe this jump starts Bennett)

Tkachuk-New Centre-Lindholm.

Or you can put Lindholm at centre and do this.

Hall-Lindholm-Gaudreau

Tkachuk-Backlund-Monahan trade piece

Bennett

Getting Hall opens up alot of options.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

Does anyone remember how much chemistry Hall and Gaudreau had in the allstar game? Granted its just an allstar game but i would love to see them together. I dont know why Gaudreau gets all the trade talk when its Monahan who is clearly the inferior player and on the more important position. I would trade Monahan plus for another top 6 centre and keep Gaudreau.

Imagine these 2 lines:

Gaudreau-Bennett-Hall (the 2 elite wingers make up for the lower end centre, and who knows maybe this jump starts Bennett)

Tkachuk-New Centre-Lindholm.

Or you can put Lindholm at centre and do this.

Hall-Lindholm-Gaudreau

Tkachuk-Backlund-Monahan trade piece

Bennett

Getting Hall opens up alot of options.

At face value I really like this.

But factoring in so much smoke about Gaudreau not re-signing here, and Monahan openly saying if he could have locked up with the Flames for longer he would have, I think this example is a poorer use of assets.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

Does anyone remember how much chemistry Hall and Gaudreau had in the allstar game? Granted its just an allstar game but i would love to see them together. I dont know why Gaudreau gets all the trade talk when its Monahan who is clearly the inferior player and on the more important position. I would trade Monahan plus for another top 6 centre and keep Gaudreau.

Imagine these 2 lines:

Gaudreau-Bennett-Hall (the 2 elite wingers make up for the lower end centre, and who knows maybe this jump starts Bennett)

Tkachuk-New Centre-Lindholm.

Or you can put Lindholm at centre and do this.

Hall-Lindholm-Gaudreau

Tkachuk-Backlund-Monahan trade piece

Bennett

Getting Hall opens up alot of options.

Mony hasn’t publicly mused about playing for another team. That’s why he doesn’t get as much guff as Johnny. When a player comes out and gives an honest answer about wanting to play for another team, that doesn’t play so well with the fanbase. Not sure how it would play in the room but can’t imagine it helps things.

Return for Johnny with two years on deal > 2 year experiment of Johnny with Hall (if we even sign him)

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

I dont know why Gaudreau gets all the trade talk when its Monahan who is clearly the inferior player and on the more important position.

It's mainly because many believe Gaudreau is playing out his contract and leaving Calgary for an eastern based team, most likely Philly.

I think if Gaudreau had 4 or 5 years left on his deal right now a lot fewer Flames fans would want to trade him.

[djsFlames]

You can always deal Gaudreau after next season if the Hall combo doesn't pay off.

Either way I see both Johnny and Mony traded within two years, barring a massive run with one of them playing an integral role.

[Roof-Daddy]

I've said before that I'd be on board with a loaded forward core if the Flames were to sign Hall and keep Gaudreau for at least one more season.

But does anyone really think Treliving will run with the skeleton Dcore that he'd have to run with if he signed Hall and kept Gaudreau? There would be no money left to add a top 4 Dman.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

You can always deal Gaudreau after next season if the Hall combo doesn't pay off.

Max value for a return is right now IMO. Thats two seasons for an acquiring team to sell Johnny on staying. And, give the acquiring team a chance to recoup if all goes wonky between them.

Hoestly, I donr see adding Hall and keeping Johnny impactful at all. They play the same position and Tkachuk is here too. I'd rather try and load the center spot better than stacking LW up to the high heavens.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Things are going off the deep end here. Talk of trading away Sean Monahan to make room for Sam Bennett on the top line. Maybe that will kick start Bennett. Talk of trading away Matthew Tkachuk, along with Mangipane and our first, for two draft picks. Hey, maybe one of them will turn into Matthew Tkachuk! It was a bitter loss in an equally bitter season, but come on. This is crazy talk. Maybe we get the product we deserve.