Poll Request: Retool or Rebuild?

[Poe969]

If they blow it up and trade everyone they can and load up on picks and young talent, they'll have a bright future but won't be contenders. If they keep the team together or do a little retool, the team won't be contenders.

So you can decide to not contend and have a bright future or not contend and keep not contending in the future.

[Mitt31]

Rebuild for sure, and here is my predictions in 3 years.


Tkachuk = Move to RW, Become Capt and 100+ Points along side Johnny
Valamaki = Elite D
Rasmuson = Regher 2.0 (not as aggressive but a little faster skating)
Kylington = steady 2nd Line D

Wolf = Kipper 2.0
Bennett = Still on the team for playoff impact



Old School Coach is found and stays for 5 years



Rest of the team is slowly replaced to find playoff players


Flames win 2 Cups.


I'm being very optimistic here but i hope its true

[oldschoolcalgary]

At this point, it's going to take more than moving one or two pieces and bringing in one or two pieces, which is how i defined 'retool'. This means still trying to move forward to try winning in the next couple of years.

Rebuilding suggests substantial changes which bring in younger less proven players (so not bringing in Hall, which is a retooling in order to win right away) where Calgary is going to drop in the standings the next few years and be a non playoff team.

At this point, there are some 'ledges' in the roster and it makes sense to me to tear it down to that bottom ledge, the Dubes, Tkachuks, Valimakis, Anderssons, Mangiapanes, Hanifins.

I'm pretty open to trading anyone at this point aside from Tkachuk, Vilimaki, Andersson and Dubes however.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

At this point, it's going to take more than moving one or two pieces and bringing in one or two pieces, which is how i defined 'retool'. This means still trying to move forward to try winning in the next couple of years.

Rebuilding suggests substantial changes which bring in younger less proven players (so not bringing in Hall, which is a retooling in order to win right away) where Calgary is going to drop in the standings the next few years and be a non playoff team.

At this point, there are some 'ledges' in the roster and it makes sense to me to tear it down to that bottom ledge, the Dubes, Tkachuks, Valimakis, Anderssons, Mangiapanes, Hanifins.

I'm pretty open to trading anyone at this point aside from Tkachuk, Vilimaki, Andersson and Dubes however.

Agree to disagree.
Trade a few core pieces (likely have to take $ back in trades, stock up on a few high draft picks in the process.
Retool or rebuild, either way, we won’t be cup contenders in the next few years (we aren’t now anyways).
But I still want to put a team on the ice that we try to compete for a playoff spot. Playing to lose is no good.

There is no way I tell my team - we are just going to try lose for 3 years and hope we get some good players, because you guys aren’t good enough.

Good time to retool with the expansion draft coming. Try and get players back that you are not worried about protecting. Protect your younger core of guys you want to keep long term.

I am trying to sign Brodie and Hall. Trading Johnny, maybe Mony. Hopefully you don’t have to protect Luc or Gio in expansion draft. Protect younger core and build from there.

[doublebass]

How do we get Toronto to eat some of Marner's salary and send him here?

[calgaryred]

This team is mentally weak I thought the Flames in the 90's were just as weak as this crop. This team is not built to win in the playoffs. Blow it up and start over maybe by the time the new arena opens there will be some pieces to make this team a challenger again.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by doublebass

How do we get Toronto to eat some of Marner's salary and send him here?

We don't.

[Darkon]

So, I fully confess I haven’t read through this whole thread so forgive me if the discussion changed after the first few pages of post game anger and let down! I definitely, can not bring myself to agree with the whole “burn it down and get loads of draft picks and hope for some elite talent to come out of it while sucking for a few years” mentality! I have yet to see where that has paid off in nhl history previously? Edmonton? Nope. Toronto? Nope. (Someone could say Pittsburgh and my response would be that they got extremely lucky and when did they ever fully burn it down? I’ve seen others say Chicago, but how many of us want to, or have the patience to go through years of pain and a couple rebuilds before somehow getting the formula right?)
I guess for the sake of this poll I lean towards the retool option? But then really that just leaves us with the door wide open to each of us determining what a retool looks like or even consists of as likely each of us are going to have different thoughts on that.
Am I extremely disappointed in the 19/20 Flames! Yes I am! And have been all year. Did I go into the play in rounds and playoffs with little excitement and even less expectations for success? Yes I did! But the disappointment is not because I thought the team has always sucked, it was more because I had truly believed this team is better and has the players in place to be better. Do I have my finger on what went wrong or what the source of the issue is? No I don’t! I just know something is off! Something is not right! But I firmly believe the potential is there. I honestly believe as I look at this team on paper, that if you line this team up with other NHL teams we have the talent in place. Let me put it this way; out of the teams remaining in the playoffs today who of them are jam packed with elite talent Colorado? Yep I think so! Tampa? I actually might argue they are simply deeper with talent then the Flames and will be interested to see what happens to them as a team this coming year when contracts start kicking in. The rest of the teams - Boston, Vegas, Vancouver St. Louis, Philly - I’m not sure I see more or better talent? I think I maybe see harder working, better systems, and better buy in? I don’t know, like I said before I can’t put my finger on it.
If I’m honest, I kinda lean toward the retool of trading Jonny and targeting one high end talent (preferably a Center) I’m not really interested in a bunch of picks or 2-3 “lesser” players. I’d even add to Jonny to get that right player! Is that player Hall??? I’m not convinced!
All this to say, NO to a burn it down rebuild, or a rebuild as generally defined today. I feel changes are going to come to this team regardless, this offseason, I just hope they manage to make positive moves. Not earth shattering, but hopefully a move that can fix that nebulous “what’s wrong”! Is it moving Jonny? Is it putting the C on Matt? Is it bringing in a different coach? Hell if I know!😁

[Hackey]

You don't see elite talent in Boston? Their top line is probably hands down the most elite line in all of hockey. Those guys are the gold standard of top lines.

So realisticaly who are the elite teams...Tampa, Boston, Colorado, Vegas. 3/4 of those teams definitely have elite super stars. Vegas you could argue doesn't have elite superstars but they are deep with talent.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Hackey

You don't see elite talent in Boston? Their top line is probably hands down the most elite line in all of hockey. Those guys are the gold standard of top lines.

So realisticaly who are the elite teams...Tampa, Boston, Colorado, Vegas. 3/4 of those teams definitely have elite super stars. Vegas you could argue doesn't have elite superstars but they are deep with talent.

Mark Stone is a top 5, perhaps top 3 winger in the entire league.

[Poe969]

Lol, that's funny. "how many of us want to, or have the patience to go through years of pain and a couple rebuilds before somehow getting the formula right?" They've esentially gone through that for 25 years or so. They've been a bad team, they've done the little tinkering and trying a new coach or trading a key player and it's got them nothing. Nowhere. This team is flawed through and through, one little tweak or addition isn't going to help them.

Let me ask you, do you have the patience to sit through a team you know is going to be bad for 5 more years with no real hope of improvement or would you rather sit through 5 bad years knowing they'll at least get high end prospects to improve the future?

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Lol, that's funny. "how many of us want to, or have the patience to go through years of pain and a couple rebuilds before somehow getting the formula right?" They've esentially gone through that for 25 years or so. They've been a bad team, they've done the little tinkering and trying a new coach or trading a key player and it's got them nothing. Nowhere. This team is flawed through and through, one little tweak or addition isn't going to help them.

Let me ask you, do you have the patience to sit through a team you know is going to be bad for 5 more years with no real hope of improvement or would you rather sit through 5 bad years knowing they'll at least get high end prospects to improve the future?

I too find those sentiments amusing. What the franchise has gone through from the past 30 years, really isn't that much different in results from a scorched earth rebuild approach. The difference though is that a full on rebuild that is committed to can actually get you the high picks you need to bring in those high impact players that can make your team successful for a duration of time.

Flames need to get the foundation of the core intact first, then once that's done and they can reach contender territory, then the objective is to sustain competitiveness for as long as you can with smart trades, and shrewd drafting. Therefore you wouldn't need to rebuild again for quite some time then.

[Flash Walken]

Worst home record in the league, "But what if the team sucks, who will buy tickets!?"

[SebC]

Some of you are addicted to magic beans. Even when your magic beans turn into well above average plants, you still want to trade them for magic beans. Most teams lose in the playoffs before they win in the playoffs, so if you're going to blow it up every time you hit that stage, you could have 100 years and still be unlikely to win a Stanley Cup.

[bugsy]

Substantial retool.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Lol, that's funny. "how many of us want to, or have the patience to go through years of pain and a couple rebuilds before somehow getting the formula right?" They've esentially gone through that for 25 years or so. They've been a bad team, they've done the little tinkering and trying a new coach or trading a key player and it's got them nothing. Nowhere. This team is flawed through and through, one little tweak or addition isn't going to help them.

Let me ask you, do you have the patience to sit through a team you know is going to be bad for 5 more years with no real hope of improvement or would you rather sit through 5 bad years knowing they'll at least get high end prospects to improve the future?

No, they haven't.

They've never drafted in the top 3.

Finishing in 15th place or 20th place is a miserable feeling because you know you won't get anything out of the season.

It's called being on the treadmill. That's what the Flames have been. That's not the same as a rebuild.

Finishing in 30th place?

At least there's a light at the end of that tunnel.

[Jeff Lebowski]

This isn't Edmonton. Meaning if the Flames tank and try a full blown rebuild, the fans won't show up in droves like they do in Edmonton. Calgary's ownership will not tolerate/allow losing tons of money with a half empty (corporate seats) arena. Fans won't shell out $$$ to see a last place team.

We've seen this in both cities. Edmonton fans sell out last place team home games. That does not happen in Calgary.

It's easy as fans to want that when you don't foot the bill.

[slash&burn]

I say retool by trading one of Gaudreau, Backlund or Monahan. I think the player leadership needs a shake up and these are the vets that have value and aren't untouchable.
It will be tough to replace any one of them but maybe with prospect or draft pick returns we can get a player that's close and can grow into one of these roles.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Worst home record in the league, "But what if the team sucks, who will buy tickets!?"

16–13–4

Lost more games on home ice than they won, with very few fantastically entertaining games and a number of truly embarrassing losses.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

16–13–4

Definitely worse than Detroit's 12-23-2. Wait, what?