2020 off-season - what now?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Couturier is everything the Flames.

Of course, he’s everything the Flyers need.

Why would the Flyers trade their best player to downgrade their team, now and in the future?


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Couturier is not their best player (Provorov) and he's not necessarily their best forward either.

And again as I've already stated, despite everyone being down on Johnny right now, if he went to Philly he more than likely leads that team in scoring by a long shot, especially on a line with Giroux/Voracek or Girous/Konecny.

[Brick]

Please do not protect Giordano. The Flames need a new leader.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Retaining cap hit on valuable players will never be more valuable than it will be this offseason with a flat cap.

A rebuilding team looking to trade good value contracts in exchange for horrific value contracts will be able to ask for a premium return that wouldn't be available in other years.

Trade Gaudreau at 50% retained to St. Louis for Steen ++++, or to Dallas for Comeau/Johns ++++ or Vegas for Statsny ++++ or Boston for Krejci +++

lol those better be some big pluses

[dammage79]

Also, if we are going all in on a Lotto pick, let that draft be the Shane Wright draft. Thats 2022.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Retaining cap hit on valuable players will never be more valuable than it will be this offseason with a flat cap.

A rebuilding team looking to trade good value contracts in exchange for horrific value contracts will be able to ask for a premium return that wouldn't be available in other years.

Trade Gaudreau at 50% retained to St. Louis for Steen ++++, or to Dallas for Comeau/Johns ++++ or Vegas for Statsny ++++ or Boston for Krejci +++

What ++++ do these teams have? High picks and mediocre prospects. I rather chase quality than quantity.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Also, if we are going all in on a Lotto pick, let that draft be the Shane Wright draft. Thats 2022.

You just cannot do it. Oilers era tanking is a thing of the past.

Detroit finished like 20+ points behind the 2nd worst team this year and they will draft 4th overall.

We just got our asses handed to us by Miro Heiskanen, who was taken 3rd overall by a team that barely missed the playoffs 3 years ago.

The NY Rangers were a play in team and will walk away with Alexis Lafreniere.

[Flash Walken]

One draft will not save you.

Chicago drafted top 5 four times and ended up with 2 players.

the flames have drafted top 5 two times and ended up with 1 player.

It is a multitude of picks in a multitude of rounds over a multitude of years, each year selling pending free agents and acquiring other players with short term to fill out the roster and later be traded for picks as well.

It's a commitment to continue to turn roster players into picks for a 3-6 year period and to not care how good or bad the team finishes in regards to your approach at turning over the roster.

[djsFlames]

At minimum I'd like to see Gaudreau out / Hall in, give Tkachuk the C and reduce Gio's usage

[topfiverecords]

Andersson is my choice for captain.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

You just cannot do it. Oilers era tanking is a thing of the past.

Detroit finished like 20+ points behind the 2nd worst team this year and they will draft 4th overall.

We just got our asses handed to us by Miro Heiskanen, who was taken 3rd overall by a team that barely missed the playoffs 3 years ago.

The NY Rangers were a play in team and will walk away with Alexis Lafreniere.

I'm saying if you're going to be a lotto team, the 2022 draft is the best time. That kid might be better than McJesus. Doesn't matter where in the lotto really but if you give yourself the best odds, then you get the next gen talent everyones been crying about.

Seriously. Shane Wright would be the Neo to the Oilers Agent Smith.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

One draft will not save you.

Chicago drafted top 5 four times and ended up with 2 players.

the flames have drafted top 5 two times and ended up with 1 player.

It is a multitude of picks in a multitude of rounds over a multitude of years, each year selling pending free agents and acquiring other players with short term to fill out the roster and later be traded for picks as well.

It's a commitment to continue to turn roster players into picks for a 3-6 year period and to not care how good or bad the team finishes in regards to your approach at turning over the roster.

Flames drafted top 5 once.

Tkachuk and Monahan were 6th overall. Are you saying Monahan is not a player? Assuming Tkachuk is the player you are referring to as their 1?

Clearly not thinking at all about selling tickets during this phase. You want to buy my tickets for the years of tanking and hoping that these lotto tickets turn into something?

Last season you were all about selling the future for the now and now it is sell everything for a lo wander down the dessert that might turn this team into a contender in another half decade.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Wouldn't trading Monahan and Gaudreau for picks be all out and help us pick at the top of the draft?

The elite superstar(s) are needed. They need to pick at the top of the draft, or they'll wander in mediocrity forever. Drafting at the top isn't the only thing you need to do (see: Oilers), but it is the foundational piece.

Right, but how long until these picks are ready to become elite, dominant superstars who can take on the prime McDavid’s, the Draisaitl’s, the Pettersson’s and the Hughes. Could take them a few years minimum at least. By then, this team might not have the horses to compete.

Treliving has spent and spent to make this current iteration of the Flames, a win now team. Whether he’s done a good enough job is up for debate. But there’s no doubt in my mind this team is ready to compete now, so they should look into NHL ready players, not futures IMO.


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[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

At minimum I'd like to see Gaudreau out / Hall in, give Tkachuk the C and reduce Gio's usage

I'm just not understanding this idea of a re-tool.

Gaudreau out and Hall in. Hall will likely make $2 million or more AAV than Gaudreau does now, so that hurts us in terms of the cap. If you believe Hall > Gaudreau fine.

But that salary swap with Gaudreau and Hall essentially confirms we won't be able to re-sign Brodie, and if we're reducing Gio's usage, who takes those minutes?

All logical signs, to me, keep pointing at a full rebuild.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I'm just not understanding this idea of a re-tool.

Gaudreau out and Hall in. Hall will likely make $2 million or more AAV than Gaudreau does now, so that hurts us in terms of the cap. If you believe Hall > Gaudreau fine.

But that salary swap with Gaudreau and Hall essentially confirms we won't be able to re-sign Brodie, and if we're reducing Gio's usage, who takes those minutes?

All logical signs, to me, keep pointing at a full rebuild.

If Johnny goes out and New Jersey's 1st comes in, then I get it. Draft Perfetti, Drysdale, Rossi, or Lundell with that pick.

Sign Taylor Hall and all of a sudden you're slightly better on the ice (in my opinion) and you've just added a blue chip prospect. That's a very quick win for the organization.

[djsFlames]

Ideally if there is any way that you can trade your way into drafting Byfield at the expense of one of your top line guys, you do that

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Flames drafted top 5 once.

Tkachuk and Monahan were 6th overall. Are you saying Monahan is not a player? Assuming Tkachuk is the player you are referring to as their 1?

Clearly not thinking at all about selling tickets during this phase. You want to buy my tickets for the years of tanking and hoping that these lotto tickets turn into something?

Last season you were all about selling the future for the now and now it is sell everything for a lo wander down the dessert that might turn this team into a contender in another half decade.

If you've been paying for Flames tickets the last 5 years would you even notice if the team was intentionally tanking?

They had the worst home record in the league this year? 4 years removed from being so bad they picked 6th overall?

There have been what, 9 playoff games in the dome in the last 10 years?

[1qqaaz]

I don't see the Flames finishing in the bottom 10 of the standings if Gallant/Boudreau/Laviolette are the coach.

Even if both Gaudreau and Monahan were traded for picks.

If rebuilding means tanking, I don't know if it's possible. Assuming the Flames do the sensible thing by hiring one of the elite coaches available.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

I don't see the Flames finishing in the bottom 10 of the standings if Gallant/Boudreau/Laviolette are the coach.

Even if both Gaudreau and Monahan were traded for picks.

If rebuilding means tanking, I don't know if it's possible. Assuming the Flames do the sensible thing by hiring one of the elite coaches available.

You really think those guys would come here if the Flames trade those two guys for picks and don't add anything else

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Trade Gaudreau at 50% retained to St. Louis for Steen ++++, or to Dallas for Comeau/Johns ++++ or Vegas for Statsny ++++ or Boston for Krejci +++

Is there a concussion protocol we can invoke here?

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

If Johnny goes out and New Jersey's 1st comes in, then I get it. Draft Perfetti, Drysdale, Rossi, or Lundell with that pick.

Sign Taylor Hall and all of a sudden you're slightly better on the ice (in my opinion) and you've just added a blue chip prospect. That's a very quick win for the organization.

But why?

if the team is better, it's marginal at best, especially with losing Brodie.

Why half-ass a rebuild? Adding Hall makes it less likely we pick high. Why not trade everyone not named Tkachuk, Andersson, Mangiapane, and Dube?