Do the Flames Keep Treliving?

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Yep. Nothing Treliving could have done about that in six years...surely a seventh he'll figure it out?

You said our core is on Treliving, he had nothing to do with acquiring any of our core players, minus Tkachuk and Lindholm.

Just pointing out the obvious, apologies if I didn't simplify that enough for you.

I'm not a Treliving supporter, but our current core wasn't drafted or signed by him.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by cannon7

This is Treliving's core. We can't keep blaming Feaster. Treliving has had almost six years as Flames GM.

To be clear I am in no-way blaming Feaster or absolving Treliving here. But he's built around a core formed by Feaster and Sutter. It's not Feaster or Sutter's fault that the core isn't good enough today, it's Treliving fault for not seeing that and continuing to build around them. It's time for Treliving to do some dirty work and actually form what he believes should be the core of this team, not just going with what was there when he arrived. His belief that this core is good enough is his mistake and his mistake alone.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by ricosuave

Who is out there that would want this mess

Depends. Ownership has given Treliving six years with pretty much nothing to show for it. Which is more than most GMs get. Plus the Flames have been spending to the cap, which all GMs want. Plus much of the roster is still quite young with some valueable pieces that could be moved and only one arguable boat anchor contract on the books. If given autonomy, I'd say being Flames GM is a solid gig for any prospective GM.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I think Treliving has been an okay GM, like most GMs he's had his good and his bad moves.

My hesitation for firing him is honestly that the ownership group doesn't really have a good track record of hiring GMs. Treliving is probably the second or third best GM in Flames history...that's really saying something.

I'd worry they'd fire Treliving only to go out and hire a guy like a Dale Tallon or something, which would be a disaster.

He's made mistakes, but all young GMs do. And really I think he's actually tried to be honest with himself, has taken accountability for his mistakes, and has tried to learn from those mistakes. Which is more than I can say for most of the "old guard" GMs who seem stubborn and unwilling to admit to an error.

So personally I'd just stick with Treliving.

Originally Posted by Willi Plett

I also think that Treliving is constantly learning, getting more experienced, and making less mistakes and making better decisions with experience. The next days weeks and months will definitely confirm or refute that supporting comment. Does Treliving now see that this core doesn’t have “it” and will he take it apart to a significant enough level to retool it properly. Is he willing to move on from players who while dynamic and capable have not proven an ability to carry the team when it counts most.

And the real unknown? Would ownership let him do what really needs to be done anyway or are his hands half tied?

Is he really learning though? Let's take this trade deadline for example. I think majority consensus for the team at that point is that the Flames likely would make the playoffs as a bottom seed, and be eliminated in the first round. Now as of last night, that's exactly what happened, DESPITE selling off future assets to bring in players that didn't move the needle, AND not selling on veteran players who are unlikely to be here next season and beyond (Harmonic & Brodie).

Are the Flames better off making not making long term moves, whereas if they did, they may have ended up with the exact same result in being eliminated in the first round?

I don't think Treliving has been learning based on his recent trades. He's still bringing in rental players, and giving up picks to do that, while not selling his players to be rentals for others, and getting something to work with, rather than lose them for nothing at the end of the season that didn't amount to any playoff success.

The bar has been so damn low for Flames GMs in this organization, that a ####ty job from him is considered acceptable, since it's better than what we've seen from others.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Freeway

Treliving's extension is 2020-21 through 2022-23, so don't expect him to get the boot.

So looks like he has 3 seasons to make it past the 2nd round (as IMO that would be where we actually expect this team should be at) or he's done too.

[Red_Baron]

For GM's you are allowed one Mulligan when it comes to coaching hires, he's used his up.

Sticking with golf analogies, he even had a favorable drop on the removal of the second coach and had a chance to get a top-flight coach.

He has shown hesitance to make moves that significantly improve the team (failed Stone, ROR, and Bishop acquisitions) and bargain bin coaching hires without at least the optics of considering experienced candidates. Pretty easy to see why we are where we are.

But I don't expect that they fire him before his extension actually starts. Sucks for us fans.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

So looks like he has 3 seasons to make it past the 2nd round (as IMO that would be where we actually expect this team should be at) or he's done too.

He'd be one of those rare GMs that actually makes it to the end of an extension.

[Toonage]

The extension means nothing ultimately. What extension does?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Toonage

The extension means nothing ultimately. What extension does?

It means real dollars to the owners. That is not nothing.

[Flamenspiel]

The ROR fiasco was on Feaster, not sure why people keep bringing that up.

[agulati]

Originally Posted by Toonage

The extension means nothing ultimately. What extension does?

Turfing him would mean that the owners continue paying Treliving, while getting and paying another GM to take on the role (Unless it is an internal candidate who they promote and bump up his salary).

I'm okay with Treliving getting another chance. Was it a bad move to part ways with Burke when we did? We had moved to a new organizational hierarchy, but did away with that fairly soon. Yes Burke had a couple of a questionable draft choices in his year where he was the main guy making the calls, but he does have pedigree and working in tandem with Treliving longer might have helped.

I remember him not being a big fan of Baertschi from the get go, and that trade (Albeit done by Treliving) netted us Rasmus Andersson through the draft.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

You said our core is on Treliving, he had nothing to do with acquiring any of our core players, minus Tkachuk and Lindholm.

Just pointing out the obvious, apologies if I didn't simplify that enough for you.

I'm not a Treliving supporter, but our current core wasn't drafted or signed by him.

He kept them. For six years. It's his core now. Possession is 9/10th of the law. And that goes for GMs, too.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Is he really learning though? Let's take this trade deadline for example. I think majority consensus for the team at that point is that the Flames likely would make the playoffs as a bottom seed, and be eliminated in the first round. Now as of last night, that's exactly what happened, DESPITE selling off future assets to bring in players that didn't move the needle, AND not selling on veteran players who are unlikely to be here next season and beyond (Harmonic & Brodie).

Are the Flames better off making not making long term moves, whereas if they did, they may have ended up with the exact same result in being eliminated in the first round?

I don't think Treliving has been learning based on his recent trades. He's still bringing in rental players, and giving up picks to do that, while not selling his players to be rentals for others, and getting something to work with, rather than lose them for nothing at the end of the season that didn't amount to any playoff success.

The bar has been so damn low for Flames GMs in this organization, that a ####ty job from him is considered acceptable, since it's better than what we've seen from others.

I disagree. I think there is value that we made the playoffs and lost again. Also think there is value in how we lost. He gave this core another shot and they blew it and now we are all are talking about what really needs to happen. Start changing up the core. If they sold at the deadline they would have had more excuses for this core as to why they didn't win.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It means real dollars to the owners. That is not nothing.

Fair . I guess I was referring to his job security but yes, the owners would have to be willing to eat that cost.

[agulati]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

The ROR fiasco was on Feaster, not sure why people keep bringing that up.

I think people are talking about when ROR got traded to St.Louis, and the flames might have been interested? (I believe that's why we keep seeing his and Stone's name together). I don't remember this rumour or discussion though.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

The ROR fiasco was on Feaster, not sure why people keep bringing that up.

I think posters are referring to the Flames being in on the ROR trade before he was moved to the Blues.

[FlamesAddiction]

With the shortened off season, I don't see the Flames making big management changes. Until things normalize, I think they will take a conservative approach and limit staff hires and player signings. It just doesn't make sense to go into the draft and free agency with a new GM who will not have a lot of time to plan or get to know the players.

Treliving has done some good things, but has had some pretty glaring failures. Going from Hartley to Gulutzan is probably the most obvious. Not that Hartley was flawless, but he was better than any of the head coaches after him. I can't blame him for being forced to remove Peters, and I don't think Ward is the issue (although maybe not the answer either), but it is hard to get traction with a coaching carousel.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Fair . I guess I was referring to his job security but yes, the owners would have to be willing to eat that cost.

And if they are eating his salary for three more years, they are not going to go out and pay large for a high-end guy on top of that.

[Enoch Root]

Treliving is our guy for at least one or two more years, I think that is pretty much guaranteed.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by agulati

I think people are talking about when ROR got traded to St.Louis, and the flames might have been interested? (I believe that's why we keep seeing his and Stone's name together). I don't remember this rumour or discussion though.

Sure but you can't force another team to trade with you...if they like the other teams assets better what can you do?