Poll Request: Retool or Rebuild?

[Beninho]

Rebuild and don’t make the same mistakes that forced the last one. Start it on your own terms or the team will yet again lose value on players they should be trading

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I mean, it absolutely was the plan to be bad in 2013 and 2014.

They tried in '13, failed out of incompetence (on the ice, and in the trades).

'14 was the "bad season" due to the incompetence of '13.

And that was it.

...and we ended up with a complete waste of 6 years. No meaningful progress. Deflating, it is. Sad.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by troutman

They have to try and sell boxes in a new arena, in a bad economy, and growing fan apathy.

Look, if they don't start this thing NOW by the time the doors open and the paint dries on the new arena we're going to be in 2013 flames territory.

This is going to take 4-7 years to do properly because of the ashes that is the organizational asset system.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I would rebuild but doubt the owners have the stomach

I’d be down with Edwards selling as I think ownership is part of (the?) problem.

City of Calgary should offer to buy the team kinda like in Green Bay. That way we actually benefit theoretically from the “profits” (doubtful) and better overall decisions can be made in general. Like, blowing everything up stat, for example. Added bonus then we know it’ll actually never leave. Guess Godfather Gary has to approve it though!

[Calgary4LIfe]

I am fine either way with the rebuild or retool.


It isn't necessarily a 'failed' rebuild just because the Flames don't have a Heiskanen, a McDavid, a MacKinnon, etc.


The Flames do have a lot of good pieces still. They can do a somewhat major retool (especially with coaching - that's a priority to me). Go look at St. Louis last season and see the type of team that they assembled. Do you see any of those players? Sure, Tarasenko is a talent, and so is Pietrangelo, but there are no real franchise players there. What they have is a deep team with an identity, and great coaching. Heck, even goaltending isn't great. They are not good enough to be a dynasty by any stretch of the imagination, but they are a top-tier club.


However, I am fine with a rebuild. Keep everyone 25 and younger. Jettison the rest.


If that is the case, then I am firmly on the "find a new GM" bandwagon. I want this burned to the ground. Management, coaches and players.



I will also be cool with a retool. I think it could work, but once again, it has to start with coaching. Get a coaching staff that fits the identity of this team - better yet, have a coach that can give this team an identity besides "disappointing and easily rattled".


Either way, I don't think Taylor Hall is going to sign in Calgary. Unless he dreams of playing for the hometown team (if he even considers the Flames his hometown team), then there is zero reason to sign here. He wants to win and is tired of playing on teams with zero success. Calgary is not a Taylor Hall away from competing for the cup. Maybe with major changes.. who knows... but as of right now, I will be shocked if Hall signs with Calgary.


For the life of me I don't know why this team wants to play this style. It doesn't fit them. They don't have the horses outside of a handful of players to really be able to generate offence from cycling. Their defencemen are, for the most part, really good puck-movers, but then they keep moving the puck back and forth for a while instead of forward as quick as possible.



Find an adaptable proven coach to make this team work, make adjustments (major ones) to the roster, and see what happens. Their style, IMO, does not suit their make-up, and thus you have a team that disappoints continuously.


There are a lot of assets on this team that can garner a hefty return, but this organization also bled assets for goalies and Hamonic, and some small moves that didn't move the needle at all. Looking back, even the small 'win' moves in bringing Gustafsson and Forbort is just more of the same - not enough to move the needle really, you slowly bleed away assets on rentals, and you take away development opportunities for the guys who could have used the playing time.


So, rebuild or retool - I am ok with either, but I prefer a new GM and a new coach first, then make the changes and give this team a direction and an identity both in composition of the roster, and an actual system that fits the roster. Only then will this organization move forward.

[Scary Eloranta]

Burn it to the ground and rebuild. Will be painful but what they've been doing clearly isn't working.

[Classic_Sniper]

RETOOL

Seen growth in too many players this summer to completely write this team off. There’s a lot good pieces, but this team is missing that “piece.”

If Heiskanen or Mackinnon have taught me anything over the last couple playoff series, it’s that a single elite superstar can make all the difference. Even if your team is struggling, one player taking over can be the great equalizer. Until the Flames get that “guy,” I’m afraid this team will be doomed to rinse and repeat the same old, same old.

Find that “guy” and maybe the current depth cam actually take this team somewhere.

[dammage79]

Re tool. But that means jettisoning the old guard first. The last remnants of the Iginla era. Let the kids roll. Time to loosen up the rank and file.

Lindholm,Tkachuk,Dube,Bennett, Mangiapane can stay. Monahan too as you can't just rip every center out.

Defense is set up fine for the retool, the contract structure in of itself has allowed that to happen.

Clean slate the goalies at the NHL level. AHL (Parsons and Zags) and Wolf are not quite done baking yet. Although, Wolf I suspect is going to be the #1 when the new arena opens.

At this point, Tkachuk probably wants to see some changes before he commits to a long term contract here. And I think its probably time the #1 LW spot is his. Build with that.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Poll added.

I've seen enough. Blow it up. This clearly isn't working.

[dammage79]

So.... by blowing it up you trade everyone? I mean okay but uhh, there's some REALLY good player under the age of 25. And some really good player that haven't been here two seasons.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Re tool. But that means jettisoning the old guard first. The last remnants of the Iginla era. Let the kids roll. Time to loosen up the rank and file.

Lindholm,Tkachuk,Dube,Bennett, Mangiapane can stay. Monahan too as you can't just rip every center out.

Defense is set up fine for the retool, the contract structure in of itself has allowed that to happen.

Clean slate the goalies at the NHL level. AHL (Parsons and Zags) and Wolf are not quite done baking yet. Although, Wolf I suspect is going to be the #1 when the new arena opens.

At this point, Tkachuk probably wants to see some changes before he commits to a long term contract here. And I think its probably time the #1 LW spot is his. Build with that.

Wtf with the handing over the reins to 2 points in 6 games Tkachuk?

I miss one thing about the Hartley era.

Always earned, never given

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Rebuild

Keep

Tkachuk
Mangiapane
Bennett
Dube
Hanafin
Valimaki
Andersson
Mackey

Everything else should be traded for max value.

sound like a retool

[EVERLAST]

Jack Eichel.....bring me this player NOW!!!!

So tired of getting second bests . Bring me a winner who wants out of where he is...let's start here.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by EVERLAST

Jack Eichel.....bring me this player NOW!!!!

So tired of getting second bests . Bring me a winner who wants out of where he is...let's start here.

A winner? (obviously I will take him)

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Wtf with the handing over the reins to 2 points in 6 games Tkachuk?

I miss one thing about the Hartley era.

Always earned, never given

Fair, but he's still literally a kid. He hasn't even fully matured yet. Going scorched earth like that is terrible. We have some great pieces to build around. There's a lot of meat to work.with its time to change the focal points from Johnny and Gio to the kids.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by dammage79

So.... by blowing it up you trade everyone? I mean okay but uhh, there's some REALLY good player under the age of 25. And some really good player that haven't been here two seasons.

Trade everyone? No, obviously not. Trade some big pieces (Gaudreau, Monahan among others), maybe a coaching and GM change as well.

Tinkering with this roster will only lead to more of the same old.

I ask myself at times like these........is this roster good enough to be a legit contender now or in the near future? If the answer is no, what are we doing here? Don't nibble around the edges, make some changes that will actually lead to success.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Trade everyone? No, obviously not. Trade some big pieces (Gaudreau, Monahan among others), maybe a coaching and GM change as well.

Tinkering with this roster will only lead to more of the same old.

I ask myself at times like these........is this roster good enough to be a legit contender now or in the near future? If the answer is no, what are we doing here? Don't nibble around the edges, make some changes that will actually lead to success.

I agree for the most part. Probably not on Monahan specifically. I do think it's high time to let the youth run things now though. No more Gios and Gaidreaus, less vets. Far too many IMO. And far too much reliance on acquiring them.

[Chonger]

Get a ducking NHL coach already

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[MisterJoji]

Since he’s been mentioned a few times in this thread and since almost everyone seems to be in the mindset of hoarding draft picks. Would you be willing to part with Gaudreau + multiple picks including at least 1 first rounder for Eichel? The ask is going to be huge. One of the rumors at the last draft was Hughes + Hischier + first rounder. Everyone knows he’s not happy in Buffalo, I just don’t think new guy Adams has the stones to trade him. Gaudreau + Hanifin + Pelletier + Unprotected first rounder?

[djsFlames]

Trade Gaudreau home for good futures.

Snag Markstrom from the Canucks.

Throw an offer at Hall.

Sign an experienced coach, keep Ward as assistant.