Poll Request: Retool or Rebuild?

[Phaneuf_Phan]

After the rebuild, it will be so easy playing against the former players that played today...if they're still in the NHL

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I would rebuild but doubt the owners have the stomach

They have to try and sell boxes in a new arena, in a bad economy, and growing fan apathy.

[topfiverecords]

Relocate?

[etc]

What does the flames roster look like if they didn't trade for Hamilton and Hamonic?

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by etc

What does the flames roster look like if they didn't trade for Hamilton and Hamonic?

Barzal. Would still happily take Hamilton (without his brother)

[bigrangy]

It’s 100% the time to rebuild. There won’t be asses in seats next year anyways so you’re not going to lose revenue, and there’s going to be so many teams strapped for cash and cap space you could make a fortune taking on bad money contracts.

As long as the owners realize this, and the GM makes the most of it, it could be a real good opportunity to finally blow it up for a couple years.

[SportsJunky]

Nobody should be safe.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Rebuild for sure. There is no top end talent on this team. Acquire talent via trades, draft well, pray for a top 3 pick, hold onto picks, and build your team properly up the middle and be honest with the players you have, meaning don't shoe-horn guys into high impact positions when they're better suited for a different role (ie. Monahan as a #1). Change the culture from top to bottom.

[flamesforthecup2017]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Look at the team one province to the west of us, on the verge of bouncing the defending champs. Proof that rebuilding can work.

they didn't even get number 1 overall picks. good drafting in the bottom 10 can rebuild a team fast.

fire treliving!

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by SebC

Gaudreau - drafted in the 4th round
Monahan - drafted
Tkachuk - drafted
Lindholm - traded for, maybe shrewdly?
Hanifin - traded for, maybe shrewdly?
Bennett - drafted 4th overall
Backlund - drafted
Gio - signed undrafted
Andersson - drafted
Dube - drafted
Mangiapane - drafted
Brodie - drafted

What you are saying they should be doing is pretty much exactly what they've been doing, other than the Hamonic trade.

Aside from Monahan and Bennett, each of those players have been drafted in points that you wouldn't expect a high end player to be amounted. So with the two that have been selected high, both of them haven't panned out the way you would hope.

With Bennett though, we have whole entire threads on why that may be the case, and that could go along with the misfires in the coaching depearment.

Now I'm gonna contradict myself here, but with the Hamonic trade and the initial Hamilton trade (which did end up bringing in Lindholm and Hanfin sure, but again, not impact players), draft picks were given up in those trades. Those draft picks could've turned into steals, where those players either would be the impact players this team needs, or would've been able to contribute enough that the roster as a whole is overall stronger as a whole unit.

Essentially, those trades did not work out in making the Flames a better team in the end. The results remain the same. So not giving up those development assets could've led to a better result. And during a rebuild which they were in until Tre accelerated the process, you rely on getting as much opportunities as possible to strike gold in the draft and prospects you may pick up through trades.

[MisterJoji]

Re-tool. Which I guess when you look at teams who re-tooled successfully it was more of an accelerated rebuild, which were Boston and St. Louis.

Boston: After a very successful run of a few seasons, including a Stanley Cup win, they missed the playoffs in 2014/15 and 2015/16. At the 2015 draft they traded Hamilton, Lucic and ended up with picks 13, 14 & 15. Although Debrusk is the only pick that has paid dividends so far. The next year they picked a stud in McAvoy at 14. Funny enough, they didn’t really make any other trades in either season where the sold off vets for futures. They kept Bergeron, Marchand, Chara, Krejci and Rask. What really expedited their re-tool was the Pastrnak pick at 25 in 2014. That combined with a young, elite goaltender and a better coach turned them into a legit contender.

St. Louis: Year after year of early playoff exits and missing the playoffs entirely in 2017/18 they reshaped their roster also without selling vets for futures. They held onto Tarasenko, Bouwmeester, Steen, Schwartz, Pietrangelo. The big moves were trades that brought in Brayden Schenn and Ryan O’Reilly. That with good late round drafting Dunn, Parayko, Binnington, etc. Again, the x-factor seemed to be bringing in a new coach and a hot goaltender.

Calgary has players with enough value available to trade for other players who need a change of scenery, like O’Reilly and Schenn. Armstrong shrewdly won those trades. Is Tre the guy to be able to do the same? Monahan, Gaudreau, Gio, Backlund, Lindholm all have solid trade value. Not saying to trade all those guys, but a few could reshape the team enough. What looks like to be a key factor is the head coach. This will be Treliving’s 3rd crack at hiring a head coach, after getting a mulligan for the Peters fiasco. I can’t deal with another shot in the dark for a hidden gem. Back up the truck and give whatever Laviolette, Gallant, Boudreau, etc. want. Combine that with a good FA signing (which is unfortunately one of Tre’s worst attributes) but it could help a lot. I guess them main question is Treliving the guy you want making these moves? He’s been here 6 years and the results have been 1 second round loss, 2 first round exits and 3 missed playoffs altogether. Not great.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Psytic

I mean as far as I can tell the Sedins retired two season ago and it only took the Canucks like 3 yrs and they look far ahead. They were better during the Bertuzzi yrs, they were better the Sedin yrs, they are better now. We need better goalie development and better pro scouting.

A year ago we said we were ahead of the Oilers. This year we still got further into the playoffs than they did. Seems to me the Canucks did not really blow up their teams. New cores surpassed the old ones, but it happened organically.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I would rebuild but doubt the owners have the stomach

They didn't last time.

They had one bad year and it was out of incompetence, not a plan.

This organization deserves to be where it is. No vision.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

They didn't last time.

They had one bad year and it was out of incompetence, not a plan.

This organization deserves to be where it is. No vision.

I mean, it absolutely was the plan to be bad in 2013 and 2014.

[Strange Brew]

You can’t make enough moves in one off season to turn this team into a contender IMO. It has to be done over time and we’ve been treading water for quite a while now.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Aside from Monahan and Bennett, each of those players have been drafted in points that you wouldn't expect a high end player to be amounted. So with the two that have been selected high, both of them haven't panned out the way you would hope.

We have a 4th overall and two 6ths (you forgot Tkachuk), and Lindholm is a 5th we acquired. What you might get out of pretty solidly tanking for four years is what we have. And people want to intentionally go back to missing the playoffs? I'd rather not. I agree that Treliving made some errors. I do not agree that those errors were so egregious that we have to start the whole process again.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by SebC

A year ago we said we were ahead of the Oilers. This year we still got further into the playoffs than they did. Seems to me the Canucks did not really blow up their teams. New cores surpassed the old ones, but it happened organically.

What ever they are doing I want some of it. They have been the better org since the late 90s for 90% of the time through multiple GMs so there seems to be some sort of support staff that they have which is making better decisions in the background than the Flames since their GM is not the common denominator. I imagine its in pro scouting, goalie development and yes even amateur scouting to an extent that allows them to keep getting legit star players and legit goalies developed and having actual contending teams every rebuild . Even if the Flames rebuild or fire Tre i'm not so sure the results will be any different as long as the supporting cast (pro scouts, goalie coaches, etc.) in the background keeps surviving every regime change. (Referring to the Canucks not the Oil).

At one point we had Weisbrod (he isnt the mastermind over there either) and we know how that went.
I think there is too much focus on the GM or the AGM and not the supporting staff that seem to affect their choices decade after decade that the Flames suck.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

Re-tool. Which I guess when you look at teams who re-tooled successfully it was more of an accelerated rebuild, which were Boston and St. Louis.

Boston: After a very successful run of a few seasons, including a Stanley Cup win, they missed the playoffs in 2014/15 and 2015/16. At the 2015 draft they traded Hamilton, Lucic and ended up with picks 13, 14 & 15. Although Debrusk is the only pick that has paid dividends so far. The next year they picked a stud in McAvoy at 14. Funny enough, they didn’t really make any other trades in either season where the sold off vets for futures. They kept Bergeron, Marchand, Chara, Krejci and Rask. What really expedited their re-tool was the Pastrnak pick at 25 in 2014. That combined with a young, elite goaltender and a better coach turned them into a legit contender.

St. Louis: Year after year of early playoff exits and missing the playoffs entirely in 2017/18 they reshaped their roster also without selling vets for futures. They held onto Tarasenko, Bouwmeester, Steen, Schwartz, Pietrangelo. The big moves were trades that brought in Brayden Schenn and Ryan O’Reilly. That with good late round drafting Dunn, Parayko, Binnington, etc. Again, the x-factor seemed to be bringing in a new coach and a hot goaltender.

Calgary has players with enough value available to trade for other players who need a change of scenery, like O’Reilly and Schenn. Armstrong shrewdly won those trades. Is Tre the guy to be able to do the same? Monahan, Gaudreau, Gio, Backlund, Lindholm all have solid trade value. Not saying to trade all those guys, but a few could reshape the team enough. What looks like to be a key factor is the head coach. This will be Treliving’s 3rd crack at hiring a head coach, after getting a mulligan for the Peters fiasco. I can’t deal with another shot in the dark for a hidden gem. Back up the truck and give whatever Laviolette, Gallant, Boudreau, etc. want. Combine that with a good FA signing (which is unfortunately one of Tre’s worst attributes) but it could help a lot. I guess them main question is Treliving the guy you want making these moves? He’s been here 6 years and the results have been 1 second round loss, 2 first round exits and 3 missed playoffs altogether. Not great.

I don't like the idea of going after retreads, or putting all your bank in getting the big UFA player whom may not even want to play in Calgary. Trading for older veterans that may need a change of scenery, generally are players that are post apex, and aren't in the peak of their careers anymore. If they were going to bounce back, the team that have them currently generally should recognize that, and won't give them up then.

Calgary is missing impactful first line players. Those are not easy to attain at all, because teams don't give them up unless they're blowing it up themselves. And in that case, they're building towards to the future. I think tonight clearly showed that Flames are in no position to be giving up future assets right now, even if there was a team they could trade with to get that first line talent. Because if we're using Gaudreau and Monahan to do that, then you're making a lateral move at best, and not moving the needle. You might as well just keep the core of the roster the same, and give it a go with another coach then.

[iamca]

Ward cannot be back as head coach.

[dino7c]

When even is next season is also a major question