2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

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Originally Posted by Vinny01

If the Sabres were making a deal for Eichel you have to think the Rangers would be the front runners in terms of where he would want to go and the package they could pay.

Lafreniere + a bunch of their prospects and young players.

Man that's the type of trades that'd be great to see, love the blockbusters

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Sandman

I would make that deal too-would give us that #1C we've always wanted, and he would match up well against McDavid. Problem is, would we end up with another American who wants to go home?

I don't think we need to worry necessarily. Both Conroy and Otto were high profile Americans that became lifers in Calgary. Other great American players have gone through Calgary without it being an issue for them (Mullen spoke highly of Calgary). I can't think of any that didn't want to be in Calgary. Drury maybe, although he denied it. Housley was a little pissy at times, but I think that had to do with other stuff going on.

I don't even think it is an issue necessarily with Gaudreau. He mused about playing at home, but players do that all the time. If the Flames build a contender and he is getting paid market value, I think he could easily opt to stay. If things are stalling out and he think he can make more somewhere else, that is probably a bigger factor.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

This is a pretty good example actually.

Flyers moved:

Carter (26 years old)
Richards (26 years old)

for

Simmonds (23 years old)
Schenn (20 years old)
Voracek (22 years old)
1st (Couturier)
3rd (Nick Cousins)


That's the exact type of re-tool idea the Flames need to have when shopping Gaudreau and Monahan. Of course it was a different NHL at the time where veterans were still valued higher, and Richards and Carter both had term on their contracts, but that's the type of idea of what the Flames need to be looking for if they decide to move those two players.

To me there are 4 reasons why I trade Gaudreau before Monahan.

1. Gaudreau contract is up first
2. If he resigned his deal would be worth more per year by st least 2 mil per year
3. Monahan is more likely to resign imo
4. Johnny brings a much better return

I'm not against trading Monahan but I don't think we get much more than a late first and secondary prospect. If I was wrong and the return was way more fine let's move him. But if not I look at monahan as a great backlund replacement. Backlund maybe has a couple good years left in him before he starts to decline. Id plan for Monahan to be our 2nd line center in a few years

I also wonder if the Flames traded Monahan and Gaudreau what Gio thinks. No cups and 37. I'd bet he might wanna move on. So for me trade Johnny for high end pick and prospect and see how it goes. If the Flsmes are way out of it why not move Gio and Backlund at the deadline? That's if they want out. If they don't maybe move Monahan next off season

I'm also worried what Tkachuk thinks about inking an 8 year deal on a team dumping johnny and monny in 1 off season. I'm thinking he might not want to be apart of this retool unless things turn around very quickly

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

I would package Johnny and Monahan together for one franchise player. For example, someone like Aho, Barzal, etc. I'd even trade them both to the Rangers for their first overall.

terrible trade

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Having them locked up long term was part of the trade but in the current NHL that term is almost seen as more of a risk for a 26 year old than a benefit.

Plus you’re forgetting that the reason the deals happened was because there was a lot of question about the two young forwards commitment, their off ice behaviour, and the whole Dry Island thing.

So sure they had better playoff results (a run as an 7 seed one year led by Pronger) and still had long term deals but in terms of pure NHL production at the time of the trade, and the players age, it’s pretty close:

Carter - Age:26 GP:461 G:181 P:343 P/GP: 0.74
Richards - Age: 26 GP:453 G:133 P:349 P/GP: 0.77

Vs

Gaudreau- Age:27 GP: 464 G: 151 P: 445 P/GP: 0.96
Monahan- Age:25 GP: 541 G:194 P: 411 P/GP: 0.76

Sure the Flyers struggled a bit after that but IMO it wasn’t because of those two moves which actually brought a lot of great pieces into the organization. They lost Pronger after that season due to injury which was the biggest impact, Briere took a step back (he was the leading scorer in the cup run), and they gave the ridiculous contract to Bryzgalov.

I'm just saying, the reason we are considering moving on from Gaudreau and Monahan is in large part because they have struggled so mightily in the playoffs and Mike Richards was a point per game playoff player who was exactly what the absolute ceiling we had all hoped Bennett would be.

Having them locked up for a decade was a massive part of their value.

If Monahan had 8 years left on his deal at 6.3 and had a career high of 46(!) goals, you could probably expect a return like that.

I think Monahan for Ristolainen might be a lot closer in terms of perceived value out there than we'd like to believe because as much as we are saying Ristoleinen has bad stats, everyone else around the league is looking at Monahan and Gaudreau and asking if these guys can actually get it done when it matters.

I'm not disagreeing that the Flames should trade both Monahan and Gaudreau, I'm just saying temper your expectations on what you're going to get back in return for a player who is basically the exact opposite of what Mike Richards was at the time in Gaudreau and a significantly worse player with 7 years left on their deal in Monahan.

Also, while there's no dry island in Calgary, there are also significant off-ice concerns for Calgary's duo as well.

I also take considerable umbrage with the idea a 10 year deal for a 26 year old player would be perceived as bad or risky when every team in the league is offering their best players max term and would be offering them a longer term than 8 years if it was possible. At the time it was definitely NOT a concern and was a major, major, MAJOR component of their value.

you're just not going to get an elite prospect and a top 5 or 10 pick for 2 years of johnny G at 6.75 after a 58 point regular season and playoff flameout.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I don't think we need to worry necessarily. Both Conroy and Otto were high profile Americans that became lifers in Calgary. Other great American players have gone through.

Different era. Star players (and their spouses) today have more in say in where they play, and are often closer to their families than previous generations.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I'm just saying, the reason we are considering moving on from Gaudreau and Monahan is in large part because they have struggled so mightily in the playoffs and Mike Richards was a point per game playoff player who was exactly what the absolute ceiling we had all hoped Bennett would be.

Having them locked up for a decade was a massive part of their value.

If Monahan had 8 years left on his deal at 6.3 and had a career high of 46(!) goals, you could probably expect a return like that.

I think Monahan for Ristolainen might be a lot closer in terms of perceived value out there than we'd like to believe because as much as we are saying Ristoleinen has bad stats, everyone else around the league is looking at Monahan and Gaudreau and asking if these guys can actually get it done when it matters.

I'm not disagreeing that the Flames should trade both Monahan and Gaudreau, I'm just saying temper your expectations on what you're going to get back in return for a player who is basically the exact opposite of what Mike Richards was at the time in Gaudreau and a significantly worse player with 7 years left on their deal in Monahan.

Also, while there's no dry island in Calgary, there are also significant off-ice concerns for Calgary's duo as well.

I also take considerable umbrage with the idea a 10 year deal for a 26 year old player would be perceived as bad or risky when every team in the league is offering their best players max term and would be offering them a longer term than 8 years if it was possible. At the time it was definitely NOT a concern and was a major, major, MAJOR component of their value.

you're just not going to get an elite prospect and a top 5 or 10 pick for 2 years of johnny G at 6.75 after a 58 point regular season and playoff flameout.

I think you are downplaying what these guys are worth and how similar their pedigree was as players at the time of the trade.

Carter the season before the trade: 36 goals, 66 points
Richards the season before the trade: 23 goals, 66 points

Gaudreau this last season (prorated): 21 goals, 68 points
Monahan this last season (prorated): 26 goals, 56 points

Plus while Richards was a playoff performer, it’s not like Jeff Carter was at the time of the trade, he was actually worse production wise than Gaudreau and Monahan were.

Carter- GP:47 G:12 P:21 -14
Monahan- GP: 29 G:10 P: 21 -4
Gaudreau- GP: 29 G:7 P: 18 -7

And positioning the 46 goal season is like saying, “Gaudreau had a 99 point season!!”. You look at the entire body of work, and the most recent season to assess value, not cherry pick a single season that was clearly an outlier.

The contract thing is the biggest difference for sure and that’s where the rub lies. It’s also why the Flames should be targeting a team that things they have a shot to re-sign either of these guys, because then they will get better value back.

I never said they should expect the same value as the Flyers got in those trades, but more about that’s the type of deal they should be looking at. Higher draft picks and young pieces. Not a lateral move or a downgrade to save some money.

And if you can’t then don’t move them, especially Monahan who IMO has a better chance of re-signing here. If you’re not getting fair value for Gaudreau then you might as well wait and hope he has a bounce back year and try to move him during the season, or next offseason.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I'm just saying, the reason we are considering moving on from Gaudreau and Monahan is in large part because they have struggled so mightily in the playoffs and Mike Richards was a point per game playoff player who was exactly what the absolute ceiling we had all hoped Bennett would be.

Having them locked up for a decade was a massive part of their value.

If Monahan had 8 years left on his deal at 6.3 and had a career high of 46(!) goals, you could probably expect a return like that.

I think Monahan for Ristolainen might be a lot closer in terms of perceived value out there than we'd like to believe because as much as we are saying Ristoleinen has bad stats, everyone else around the league is looking at Monahan and Gaudreau and asking if these guys can actually get it done when it matters.

I'm not disagreeing that the Flames should trade both Monahan and Gaudreau, I'm just saying temper your expectations on what you're going to get back in return for a player who is basically the exact opposite of what Mike Richards was at the time in Gaudreau and a significantly worse player with 7 years left on their deal in Monahan.

Also, while there's no dry island in Calgary, there are also significant off-ice concerns for Calgary's duo as well.

I also take considerable umbrage with the idea a 10 year deal for a 26 year old player would be perceived as bad or risky when every team in the league is offering their best players max term and would be offering them a longer term than 8 years if it was possible. At the time it was definitely NOT a concern and was a major, major, MAJOR component of their value.

you're just not going to get an elite prospect and a top 5 or 10 pick for 2 years of johnny G at 6.75 after a 58 point regular season and playoff flameout.

I disagree that you can't get a top 10 pick for johnny and I believe if the plan is to retool for a year and not pursue free agents like Hall after the deal maybe Monahan could too if you took salary back.

Zajac and 7th overall for Monahan cost the devils 600k in cap space and they still have 2 firsts in this draft. If Zajac waived ntc I could see the devils being interested and the Flames only have zajac for 1 year.

Johnny would easily get 7th pick maybe Vancouver first too if zajac came back

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

I'm not against trading Monahan but I don't think we get much more than a late first and secondary prospect. If I was wrong and the return was way more fine let's move him.

I look at the Johansen/Jones trade and I'd hope we can recreate that outcome.

And I really don't see Monahan capable of all the little things Backlund excels at, to be honest.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I look at the Johansen/Jones trade and I'd hope we can recreate that outcome.

And I really don't see Monahan capable of all the little things Backlund excels at, to be honest.

I don't think they are the same players for sure but more looking at Monahan as ok to be a 2nd line center. If we are trading Johnny for picks and prospects I'd assume we won't be making the playoffs next year. If that happens will guys like Gio or Backlund potentially want out or keep them until they retire? Maybe we get a lot for monny but I'm thinking without bad salary coming back we don't get enough. Imo johnny gio and backlund get more in return than johnny and monny and id keep the 26 year old over the 31 year old when the plan is to rebuild a bit

I really don't like the idea of trading everyone either. That would be an oiler move. Trade johnny and monny and if things don't turn around now backlund and gio are old and need to be traded. Now we are moving johnny monny gio backlund? Tkachuk won't be happy with that might as well trade him then.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Kessel is such a weird player.
Seems clear he is out of shape
He's worn out of his welcome in many places despite being productive.
He was a big part of their latest Stanley Cup but shortly thereafter they wanted nothing to do with him.

Just a very odd player. He probably will net out well over 1,000 points and is a champion.
But does he make the hall of fame? Probably not.

I always find this weird also. We all say he looks out of shape yet he plays at a high level. I wonder if some of his "roundness" has something to do with medication, didn't he have cancer as a rookie and maybe he takes something like Prednisone now which can cause the moon face. I love Phil, surprised me every year.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Columbus if negotiations with Dubois go badly

Monahan and Gaudreau for Dubois and Andersen?

Feel ike the Flames lose this deal

Dubois is probably the best player in the deal. Youngest, and with most possible term. Anderson is a wildcard, but he checks every box for what this team needs. Together they are going to cost $10-14M depending on term...really not sure why CBJ would do this.

Originally Posted by Macho0978

I disagree that you can't get a top 10 pick for johnny and I believe if the plan is to retool for a year and not pursue free agents like Hall after the deal maybe Monahan could too if you took salary back.

Zajac and 7th overall for Monahan cost the devils 600k in cap space and they still have 2 firsts in this draft. If Zajac waived ntc I could see the devils being interested and the Flames only have zajac for 1 year.

Johnny would easily get 7th pick maybe Vancouver first too if zajac came back

He said top 10 pick AND elite prospect

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

I always find this weird also. We all say he looks out of shape yet he plays at a high level. I wonder if some of his "roundness" has something to do with medication, didn't he have cancer as a rookie and maybe he takes something like Prednisone now which can cause the moon face. I love Phil, surprised me every year.

From what I've read, Kessel is incredibly strong and fast, just naturally and without training. A freak of nature.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Plus the Gaudreau+Kylington for Coutourier+Ghost and Monahan for Ristolainen rumours.

I think the only possible conclusion is that it was a 3 way trade.

It's a bit mind bottling to try and fill the other pieces.

BUF gets: Ghost+Monahan

PHI gets: Gaudreau+Cozens+Kylington

CGY gets: Couturier+Ristolainen


It almost makes sense. BUF balances D and adds firepower, CGY gets the best player in the deal, PHI thinks they are selling high on Couturier?

[Freddy]

Gaudreau is the guy I’m actively shopping if I’m Tre; Monahan on the other hand is perfectly fine as Flame, although miscast as our top center. Monahan has as many GWG as Iginla at a younger age, plays through crazy injuries, and is a good face off guy. We just need more elite talent to bump Monahan down in the lineup and he’ll be back to being a stud in fans eyes again. Both Monahan and Backlund have more value to us than is available on the market is my guess, but if scouting staff feel we’re totally ripping another franchise off trading those two for the right prospects I’d support the move.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I think the only possible conclusion is that it was a 3 way trade.

It's a bit mind bottling to try and fill the other pieces.

BUF gets: Ghost+Monahan

PHI gets: Gaudreau+Cozens+Kylington

CGY gets: Couturier+Ristolainen


It almost makes sense. BUF balances D and adds firepower, CGY gets the best player in the deal, PHI thinks they are selling high on Couturier?

I don’t like this for Calgary at all

[motorcrosser]

Why do you guys want Hall so badly? He didn't do squat this playoffs on a team similar in skill to CGY. Yes, I bet AZ would have given cgy a run this playoffs at this rate.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by motorcrosser

Why do you guys want Hall so badly? He didn't do squat this playoffs on a team similar in skill to CGY. Yes, I bet AZ would have given cgy a run this playoffs at this rate.

What? Calgary is going to game six with a contender

Why do people think Dallas sucks? They went to game 7 double OT with the Blues last season and have upgraded their team with Pavelski and Perry

[Roof-Daddy]

It still blows me away how much people are over rating Couturier, under rating Gaudreau and failing to recognize how much the Flyers probably want to shed the Ghost contract.

That Couturier, Ghost for Gaudreau, Kylington deal is not a rip off for the Flames IMO.

I get that Couturier is the Flyers #1C but Giroux could take that role again easily, and don't forget they still have Hayes, Laughton and two really good C prospects in Frost and Patrick.

Also, if the Flames were to do that deal in the off season, I hope to hell they hang onto Monahan. He'd be just fine as a 2C, and maybe he'd learn a thing or two from Couturier as well.

Couturier
Monahan
Backlund
Bennett
Ryan

Probably have to deal Ryan to clear some cap space though.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

If the Sabres were making a deal for Eichel you have to think the Rangers would be the front runners in terms of where he would want to go and the package they could pay.

Lafreniere + a bunch of their prospects and young players.

Yuck. I could see it.

Lafreniere, strome, D'Angelo for eichel.