[PGT] Anemic offense, Flames lose 2-1

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Treliving was trying to get Talbot as far back as 2015 and seems to have coveted him up until they got him last year. I also expect Talbot to come back.

I remember Talbot saying he liked Calgary, Ritter and Sigalet and also at the same time, that he wanted to prove to the league that he was a number one

I would expect we only see him back if he is essentially guaranteed the number one spot, otherwise expect he will test the market first.

And I am thinking that he will want to be paid more like a number one then, and I am not sure I see Brad going for that

So it should be interesting

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Scary Eloranta

I remember people asking this question last year and the answer was a giant turd in game 5. I expect the same result tomorrow. Why would it be any different?

Effort hasn't been an issue in this series IMO. Dallas is a veteran team really capitalizing on Flames mistakes. They are down an emotional driver, but they can't wait around for Tkachuk.

[Gaskal]

Every time that first line steps out on the ice, a different player on it carries them the whole shift. That type of inconsistency really has to stop.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by AC

Monahan has absolutely been a disappointment much like Gaudreau. But I do think a lot of Monahan's lack of offense is a result of Gaudreau and Lindholm.

At least Monahan has had multiple shifts consisting of hard work on the backcheck to get the puck back and give it to Gaudreau or Lindholm. That's where the play usually dies from what I've seen.
...

As I said, Monahan's lack of offense is a huge disappointment. But I see him battling out there to help his teammates, something that Gaudreau has basically not done at all from what I've seen. I definitely think Monahan would have had some success if he wasn't paired with Gaudreau through these 5 games.

This is what I'm seeing too. I said in the GT I thought Monahan was as physical as I've ever seen him (not a high bar mind you). But so often he was the guy finally getting the puck out in the D zone, he's not been in position to be also in on the rush.

Moving Lindholm for a fast guy up the ice in Reider helped. I'm wondering if Dube shouldn't be that guy though - he's a better forechecker and has better hands. And gives a second puck carrying option as well.

I generally don't like armchair line combo experts (it always seems quick fix to me). But assumiong Chuck doesn't play:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Dube
Reider-Backlund-Mangiapane
Bennett-Lindholm-Looch
XX-Ryan-XX

I don't care who the XXs are. This is bench shortening time, with Ryan ready to move up if Reider can't do it.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by AC

As I said, Monahan's lack of offense is a huge disappointment. But I see him battling out there to help his teammates, something that Gaudreau has basically not done at all from what I've seen. I definitely think Monahan would have had some success if he wasn't paired with Gaudreau through these 5 games.

This is the thing.

Gaudreau has had some flashes with the puck on his stick where he looks like his old self, and those are more noticeable but that's maybe 5% of the time.

The rest of the time though I'm sure you could make a pretty long video from this playoff run of Gaudreau either bailing on a play in the corner knowing he might get hit, the puck going up the LW side on a defensive zone exit with Gaudreau not helping to clear the zone at all since he doesn't want to get hit, or Gaudreau just throwing the puck away at the offensive blueline since he doesn't want to take a hit.

With the puck on his stick the guy has been trying a little (mostly the past two games) but for the majority of this playoff he's just be completely unwilling to engage in any battle to win the puck back, hasn't worked hard away from the puck, and hasn't been willing to take a hit to make a play.

[Flamenspiel]

Changing the coach will not really address the issues. The Flames will need a bit of a reset to get to the next steps. If you look at the two teams, Dallas has two generations of player, the first lot with Benn, Seguin, and radulov. Then there is a second group of high draft picks that have panned out like Heiskenen,Klingberg and the others.

The Flames missed out on this with the Hamonic trade and other draft trades. There is really no substitute for high end talent in the draft.

I am not sure that the top players are good enough, that’s more for the professionals to decide, but it is quite easy to see that they are short of higher end talent that done other teams have.

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by AC

As I said, Monahan's lack of offense is a huge disappointment. But I see him battling out there to help his teammates, something that Gaudreau has basically not done at all from what I've seen. I definitely think Monahan would have had some success if he wasn't paired with Gaudreau through these 5 games.

Thanks for this, I'm seeing it the same way. Monahan is noticeably working and the effort is there. Dallas is keying on him and checking him aggressively in his favorite spot in front of the net too.

Plays are consistently dying on Gaudreau's stick and he is frankly a liability at this point. Lindholm appears hurt to me and he is not engaging like we've seen in the past.

[genetic_phreek]

Next game I'd like to see:

If Tkachuk plays

Gaudreau - Monahan - Bennett
Tkachuk - Backlund - Mangiapane
Lucic - Lindholm - Dube
Rieder - Ryan - Jankowski

Hanifin - Andersson
Giordano - Brodie
Kylington - Stone (Kylington makes mistakes but has the ability to skate the puck out and recover)

No Tkachuk

Gaudreau - Monahan - Bennett
Quine - Backlund - Mangiapane (Quine has shown offensive ability and also has the speed to keep up with the two)
Lucic - Lindholm - Dube
Rieder - Ryan - Jankowski

Hanifin - Andersson
Giordano - Brodie
Kylington - Stone (Kylington makes mistakes but has the ability to skate the puck out and recover)

[Scroopy Noopers]

You can’t put Dube with Monahan and Gaudreau as he is a bit of a liability defensively (positionally). He needs strong defensive linemates at this point in his career.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by IrishSpring2013

With all due respect it's been a rough few decades. Even with this group it's been a rough few years. Wilting and allowing the Stars to take the series lead is the most predictable Flames thing ever. The current group is just carrying on the proud tradition.
<snip>
We might very well win games six and seven but it's a long shot and things would need to do a complete 180.

Oh I totally know where you are coming from. I'm certainly not judging people who are down on the team. It's totally deserved based on the track record.

I do hope for a complete 180 and my optimism may not be rewarded. I know the team can play better...I've seen them do it. I hope that the added pressure of elimination games will make them play better rather than crumble. </HopelesslyOptimisticPost>

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

You can’t put Dube with Monahan and Gaudreau as he is a bit of a liability defensively (positionally). He needs strong defensive linemates at this point in his career.

I think Dube is just fine defensively. He lost position to a much bigger guy in Benn and he wasn't the first one ever.

He's certainly better than any other option defensively other than Reider, since Lindholm stopped being effective.

[SuperMatt18]

I still think I'd look at separating Monahan and Gaudreau tomorrow, even if just for the first period to give the Stars a bit of a different look too.

If Tkachuk plays:

Tkachuk - Backlund - Lindholm
Lucic - Bennett - Gaudreau
Dube - Monahan - Reider
Mangiapane - Ryan - Quine

or if Tkachuk is out:

Mangiapane - Backlund - Lindholm
Lucic - Bennett - Gaudreau
Dube - Monahan - Reider
Quine - Ryan - Jankowski

Let's put Monahan and Gaudreau with guys that each cover their biggest weakness. Gaudreau is soft and isn't gritty, lets put him with some guys that make space with their physicality. Monahan isn't fleet of foot, let's put him with speed in Dube and Reider.

[Flash Walken]

A really good way of ruining Calgary's best playoff line would putting their worst performing player on it.

Sink or swim.

Elimination game isn't when you unbox the blender and ruin any of the limited chemistry on display.

That's game 24 of the regular season type stuff.

You either dance with the one that brung ya or you go home and find a new date for the next dance.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I still think Bruce Boudreau is the right coach for this team.

- Can be emotional and wear his heart on his sleeve but doesn't seem like a guy who is a dick to his players
- Has proven he can coach different styles, tailoring the style of play to his roster in his stops in Anaheim, Washington, and Minnesota
- A .635 career winning percentage over 1000 games coached and 8 division titles
- 8 times he's coached a team to a 100 point season, more than the Flames have in their entire history.

So yeah that's a guy I think they should look at bringing in as coach no matter the cost.

Any of Gallant, Laviollette or Boudreau would be great. I put Gallant and Laviolette ahead of Boudreau based on their more recent post-season success. Boudreau’s teams, despite having great regular seasons have faltered in the playoffs, only getting passed the second round once in nine trips to the playoffs. More recently, his team has either not made the playoffs or were out in the first round the last five years.

[dammage79]

I watched the Dallas feed yesterday on the Flames 1st PP and the made a pretty alarming point about a Gaudreau play he made.

Players and coaches and a whole team HATE those slap shots that gaudreau made because it misses most of the time and the rounds out of the zone because it goes against the grain of the powerplay zone set up thusly squandering possession and zone time.

The made a pretty big point of saying that I couldn't agree more. Gaudreau has a really terrible habit of making plays like that.

But admittedly, Johnny did show a bit of juice after that and had a showing of a pulse the rest of the game.

But yeah, if the opposing teams announcers are detailing specific plays like that it can't be good.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

You can’t put Dube with Monahan and Gaudreau as he is a bit of a liability defensively (positionally). He needs strong defensive linemates at this point in his career.

You don't put guys who play with intensity and passion with a guy displaying neither.

Lucic and Bennett work with Dube because they play hard and are always where you can expect them to be(because they are playing hard).

You stick dube with a guy who wants to tap dance on the blue line and you're going to get a million offsides.

Dube plays with pace, Bennett plays with pace, lucic even though he is slow, plays with pace.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

Any of Gallant, Laviollette or Boudreau would be great. I put Gallant and Laviolette ahead of Boudreau based on their more recent post-season success. Boudreau’s teams, despite having great regular seasons have faltered in the playoffs, only getting passed the second round once in nine trips to the playoffs. More recently, his team has either not made the playoffs or were out in the first round the last five years.

I think I'd go with

1. Laviolette
2. Boudreau
3. Up and coming coach (no re-treads, no 2nd chancers - a genuine up and comer - I'm trying to look around and see who would be considered one of these)
4. Gallant

There's something about Gallant that I don't like. The way it went in Florida and then his all of a sudden exit in Vegas (believe the rumour is Gallant is anti-analytics).

[Flash Walken]

Is the obsession with getting a big name coach on this board fundamentally about knowing the team can't attract a big name player?

[dammage79]

If that Gallant thing is true, then sign me up, we need a pulse reader more than a numbers guy on the bench. Last coach we had to milk all the effort he could put of this core was Hartley. And we desperately miss his in game reads.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think Dube is just fine defensively. He lost position to a much bigger guy in Benn and he wasn't the first one ever.

He's certainly better than any other option defensively other than Reider, since Lindholm stopped being effective.

You’re referencing one play like that’s all that has happened. This isn’t a knock on him as a player as much as it is experience.